When to use Flare?

[scarebearz]

Dungeon-length parses are a horrible way to test anything.

I have my personal experiences, testing and the experiences and testing of all my friends, many of which are world-first tier players and very reliable sources backing up the fact that the Flare only rotation is significantly higher AoE DPS.

Even in the scenario that those dungeon-long parses were completely identical (to the timestamp) in every situation other than the AoE pulls, the only plausible reason left for your friend's observation would be improper use of the rotation.

Your friends with "many world first tier" BLM main's on your server? lol

What's are their names? I expect I've heard of some if they were world first for the new coil.

Agree or disagree, you have no way to prove my use of AoE rotations is any worse or better than your single rotation. Just like I can't prove my opinion to be correct.

[NoctisUmbra]

Your friends with "many world first tier" BLM main's on your server? lol

What's are their names? I expect I've heard of some if they were world first for the new coil.

Agree or disagree, you have no way to prove my use of AoE rotations is any worse or better than your single rotation. Just like I can't prove my opinion to be correct.

Don't need to be a main to be good at a job. Especially not with relatively easy jobs like BLM or BRD.

I don't need to drop names. If you're so inclined, you're welcome to check my lodestone page and go from there. I only raised that point to suggest credibility in my sources compared to your story.

Ultimately, your final point is a good one. Do what you think works for you. Until a fight emerges where it really matters (perhaps another Turn 4 type instance), makes little difference anyway.

[kro]

In a test dummy scenario or against a group of mobs with lots of HP, infinite flares are superior. However, Fire II is important if it can get mob HP low enough to not need another cycle of Transpose > Flare x2.

When starting from a full MP bar with Raging Strikes up, you should throw in enough Fire II's so that you can finish the pack with Flare > Convert > SC Flare. Once that initial bar of MP is gone, you should do either Transpose > Flare > Flare or Transpose > Flare > Fire II > Flare depending on remaining mob HP.

I've had a lot of cases where all the mobs have a sliver of health left and both BLMs are standing around doing absolutely nothing for 5 seconds trying to time the MP tick for double flare. This could have been avoided if they had used an extra Fire II before casting Flare.

[Maero]

actually with 2 blm's in Bray Hm 2x flares would certainly not kill all mobs with 2x flare. Obviously some of you do not pull all enemies up to first boss door, lol
Using Fire 3> Fire 2> Fire 2> Flare> Convert> Flare> Mana pot> swiftcast flare with raging and qualling strikes of course, would kill all that is there.
And as to why some use Ice 3 at first, it is not so much for the speed increase to cast F3 but it is if they do a F2 rotation you get a extra fire or f2 in there.
That comment earlier about Mr. Happy said Transpose> Flare is better as it would hit all mobs, well sorry but if he said this truly, lol. Flare does have a certain radius in which it will hit enemies regardless.
My arguements was not that to continuation of a rotation because at some point you will need to use transpose i was simply stating that using Flare ( a Fire spell) when using transpose (bringing you to umbral ice) would be weaker then if under Astral Fire, which in point as why many also use the fire 2 followed my triple flare and then if enemies still remain you can use your transpose> insert rotation
Umbral Ice if i recall correctly is -10% dmg wise
At the end of the day it is true do what is best for either you or depending on party composition ( Bards with Foe Requiem does wonders as well)
Anyhow this thread sort of got lost and changed to rotations, i am sure the op has already moved on, lol
Truly things i imagine will change once more if/when they give blm a buff as while i hope it will not be the case but if they give us a buff flare may be the victim of getting nerfed

[ShinryuReishiki]

Fire II isn't bad at all.

Transpose -> Flare -> Fire II -> Flare is actually slightly higher DPS than without the Fire II. I typically include it unless going straight to the second Flare will kill for sure.

Fire III -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Fire II -> Flare is higher DPS than the above, but it requires more downtime to do repeatedly; by the time you have the MP to do it again, the DPS is reduced below the Flare only rotation. You would want to open with this, use up Convert/Mega Ether Flares, then begin the Transpose -> Flare -> Flare rotation if stuff is somehow still alive.

Starting off with Fire III -> Flare seems like it's a good idea because it is higher DPS than including the Fire IIs, but it's for such a short period that the actual result is less damage dealt.

Some numbers:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1817257

[scarebearz]

Agree with pretty much everything from the last 3 posters.

@NoctisUmbra As a Monk main, you may thing BLM is easy and that you know best, but to get top DPS for Coil2, Primal's etc, it actually does take a fair bit to master.

Using your method, how long does a full Bray run take on average, with a decent whm, war/pld and brd/blm?

[Sanguisio]

more than 2 or more I would use flare

Do Fire 3 -> Flare transpose -> fire 3 -> fire 2 -> flare repeat
Once you get use to it, you can time it with the mana regen ticks to be constantly casting.

[Umero]

flare when mp tick happened 2 seconds ago.
flare when you have swiftcast and convert up.

[NoctisUmbra]

@NoctisUmbra As a Monk main, you may thing BLM is easy and that you know best, but to get top DPS for Coil2, Primal's etc, it actually does take a fair bit to master.

I have MNK as my main because I'm partial to it for casual reasons. I just think it's cool. Has a special place in my heart. Since early 1.0, however, I have always played and mastered all DPS classes/jobs to have the flexibility for all content. Also because that's what makes this game fun for me - mixing it up.

I have no real main. I main DPS. Getting top DPS in Coil 2 or Primals as a BLM doesn't mean you mastered your job. It means you were either better geared than the other jobs, or they had bad performance. You may very well be a master of your job, or maybe not.

Save for Garuda, all of the extreme primals (some more than others) put BLM at a disadvantage. Even when they don't, they are very much single-target heavy and BLM is closer to the lower end of the tier when it comes to single-target DPS - at least until 2.3. As for Coil2, all of the fights favor melee DPS heavily, save for T9 - in which case BRD and SMN do exceptionally well.

[StouterTaru]

What I'm referring to is that your DPS output with the Flare only rotation is significantly higher than with the Fire II > Flare rotation. That much cannot be contested.

You're looking at them as two exclusive rotations, combining them can lead to faster kills.

With your double flare only, 2/3 of your damage is one big burst every 12 seconds. If the stuff dies from Fire3 > Flare > Transpose > double Flare, then it's the best way to go. If not, you're taking another 12 seconds for your next big hit if you don't have convert or ether CD up.

Fire2 under AF3 by itself is about the same dps as transpose > double flare > repeat. So, if you're already under AF3, and have the MP, using fire2 can lead to faster kills.

Fire3 > some Fire2's > Flare > Transpose > Flare > Fire2 > Flare can produce faster kills, it's all about what overkills the least.