When to use Flare?

[Shinsaki]

Being a DPS main who enjoys playing each DPS job at full capacity, I have theorycrafted/tested/researched each one of them.

Show us the figures then. I'm sure every DPS community would like to see these.

My testing is not exclusive to dummies. That would be silly. They have their place, and provide conclusions in a certain context.

More relevant testing is content like Turn 4 of BCoB or Brayflox (Hard) speed runs.

How many times have you run these to check figures?

[NoctisUmbra]

Show us the figures then. I'm sure every DPS community would like to see these.

How many times have you run these to check figures?

You're welcome to test it yourself. At this point, enough people have voiced their use of the same Flare only AoE rotation I mentioned (save for that strategic placement of a single Fire II for Transpose timing).

You can either try it out, and realize like the rest of us that Fire II - based AoE rotations have been very much subpar AoE DPS compared to what you could have been doing, or continue to be stubborn. Your call.

[scarebearz]

You're welcome to test it yourself. At this point, enough people have voiced their use of the same Flare only AoE rotation I mentioned (save for that strategic placement of a single Fire II for Transpose timing).

You can either try it out, and realize like the rest of us that Fire II - based AoE rotations have been very much subpar AoE DPS compared to what you could have been doing, or continue to be stubborn. Your call.

Lots of people doing the same thing does not mean it's superior to methods used by the few.

[NoctisUmbra]

Lots of people doing the same thing does not mean it's superior to methods used by the few.

No, it doesn't you're right.

However, as it has been both explicitly mentioned and more implicitly suggested so far by various players (myself included), the Flare only rotation is not simply better, but significantly better than Fire II spam + Flare.

Therefore, instead of providing detailed testing data just to spoon feed the stubborn folk who wish to stay in their comfort zone, I am perfectly happy inviting them to try it out for themselves and attain enlightenment.

[scarebearz]

No, it doesn't you're right.

However, as it has been both explicitly mentioned and more implicitly suggested so far by various players (myself included), the Flare only rotation is not simply better, but significantly better than Fire II spam + Flare.

Therefore, instead of providing detailed testing data just to spoon feed the stubborn folk who wish to stay in their comfort zone, I am perfectly happy inviting them to try it out for themselves and attain enlightenment.

I have used the Flare only rotation and it's of very little use in any real situation.

In most situations the use of Fire II will provide more DPS, I.e. Bray speed runs.

Oh yeah, and don't use Fire 2. Like, ever. As soon as you have Flare, it is obsolete.

I don't think I'm the one who needs "enlightenment"

Any good BLM will know various AoE Rotations and use most of them on times depending on the situation.

Only using 1 AoE rotation makes you one of the "stubborn folk who wish to stay in their comfort zone".

[Ringabell]

In most situations the use of Fire II will provide more DPS, I.e. Bray speed runs.

Not from what I've seen.

In Brayflox HM you're going to have upwards of 10-15 mobs on the Tank. In the Fire II rotation the Fire III is a HUGE DPS drop. That Fire III will hit one enemy for a few hundred HP. It's a waste. In the Flare-Only rotation there are no single target attacks so every attack is doing several thousand HP damage (a few hundred HP for the first Flare x10 mobs). Think of the first Flare as almost like a Fire II. You're just cutting out the HORRIBLE Fire III damage and cycling Fire II & Flare.

The only SLIGHT lull is the 2 second wait, which is really nothing considering that the alternative is wasting an entire GC on a Fire III attack that does practically nothing.

I really don't see how anyone could try both rotations and ignore the horrible Fire III DPS drop.

[NoctisUmbra]

I have used the Flare only rotation and it's of very little use in any real situation.

In most situations the use of Fire II will provide more DPS, I.e. Bray speed runs.

I'm sincerely not sure what you must be doing or seeing that you would suggest a Fire II rotation having superior DPS to a Flare only rotation in Bray. The only scenario I can think of, is things are dying so fast because you're with another competent DPS that after your first few Flares the mobs don't have enough HP to allow you to finish a strong cast. In which case, yes using a weak ass spell that hits them all instead of effectively doing nothing for their remaining little HP would be more DPS in that specific scenario.


What I'm referring to is that your DPS output with the Flare only rotation is significantly higher than with the Fire II > Flare rotation. That much cannot be contested.

With the Transpose timing being significant, there is already reason to keep Fire II on your bar I suppose. If you're in that specific situation where you know your targets will die before you finish a hard cast Flare, then by all means Fire II away.

Point remains, there's no scenario where you would be able to fully finish a Blizzard II/III > Fire III > Fire II x 3 > Flare rotation on multiple targets where Transpose > Flare x 2 wouldn't do more DPS.

[StouterTaru]

What I'm referring to is that your DPS output with the Flare only rotation is significantly higher than with the Fire II > Flare rotation. That much cannot be contested.

You're looking at them as two exclusive rotations, combining them can lead to faster kills.

With your double flare only, 2/3 of your damage is one big burst every 12 seconds. If the stuff dies from Fire3 > Flare > Transpose > double Flare, then it's the best way to go. If not, you're taking another 12 seconds for your next big hit if you don't have convert or ether CD up.

Fire2 under AF3 by itself is about the same dps as transpose > double flare > repeat. So, if you're already under AF3, and have the MP, using fire2 can lead to faster kills.

Fire3 > some Fire2's > Flare > Transpose > Flare > Fire2 > Flare can produce faster kills, it's all about what overkills the least.

[MicahZerrshia]

or continue to be stubborn. Your call.

Hi pot my name's kettle lol

idk how you can get so many flares off in brayflox, with 2 decently geared blm you can do f3 > f2 > f2 > f2 > sc flare > done. If there is a mob left with a few hp just scathe and be done. If you are getting 4-7 flares off in one rotation in bf hm your dps is in the toilet anyway.

I think this is just one of those situations where you just walk away cause there aint no way someone will admit there are superior or even relatively close methods they don't approve of that exist anyway. Its called a troll and you need to stop feeding it.

[NoctisUmbra]

idk how you can get so many flares off in brayflox, with 2 decently geared blm you can do f3 > f2 > f2 > f2 > sc flare > done. If there is a mob left with a few hp just scathe and be done. If you are getting 4-7 flares off in one rotation in bf hm your dps is in the toilet anyway.

With 2 decently geared BLM, the mobs would die to the initial double Flares with Convert to begin with, or be left with minimal HP.

Honestly now, if the only argument against the Flare only rotation is "shit is dying too fast in this dungeon I'm overgeared for" then by all means, do what you like. Obviously it makes no difference in that scenario.

Go into Brayflox on DF and get a MNk who also plays bad as the only other DPS in party. Then go ahead and try your Fire II rotation on one pack and the Flare only rotation on the other. Then you'll see what I'm talking about.