When to use Flare?

[Maero]

Well if all you have been doing is testing on dummies, well ok
Again were did i say i double flare? I turned the "pretty widely" accepted 2x flares into 3x flares
My rotation is that of those who have used parsers, not test dummies
Yes when i first reached 50 blm i used your rotation but only after countless testing, mostly by others but i have and continue to test different rotations
have i realized there is more dps to be had.
Also several mobs or more, overtime Fire 2's will in fact add up and will be more dmg
Anyhow, best of luck in coil

/closethread

[NoctisUmbra]

Well if all you have been doing is testing on dummies, well ok

My testing is not exclusive to dummies. That would be silly. They have their place, and provide conclusions in a certain context.

More relevant testing is content like Turn 4 of BCoB or Brayflox (Hard) speed runs.

Again were did i say i double flare? I turned the "pretty widely" accepted 2x flares into 3x flares

I'm still not sure you understand what I'm comparing. The opener is not in question here. Everyone worth their salt will open an AoE burn with

Fire III > Flare > Convert > Flare (> Ether > Flare) > Transpose

You didn't turn anything into anything. Not sure if English isn't your first language or not, but when I say double Flare rotation I haven't been referring to starting off with 2 Flares.

The comparison here is, what do you do after that opener, when you've use up your Convert and Ether?

A. Transpose > Blizzard (I/II/III) > Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Transpose > etc.

or

B. Transpose > {wait} > Flare > Flare > Transpose > etc.


Comparing those 2 extensions to the AoE burn rotation, B comes out far ahead. It's not even close.

/closethread

Whatever you say, buddy. Pretty sure the thread doesn't close when you want it to though.

[scarebearz]

I'm curious... why do you think this is bad advice?

There are very few situations where this "double flare" is of any use at all.

AoE rotations are very situational, but for most cases, mobs should not be around long enough for you to empty mp - transpose - wait and hardcast 2 flares, let alone any more.

Take Bray first and 2nd pull for example:

If the party is decent:

1st pull:

RS - Fire III - Fire II x 1 or 2 (depending on party dps) - Flare - Mega Ether - SC - Flare

2nd pull:

RS - Fire III - Fire II x 1 or 2 (depending on party dps) - Flare - Convert - SC - Flare


If party dps is low:

1st pull:

Fire III - Fire II - Fire II - RS - Fire II - Flare - Convert - (Fire II only if SCH in party) - Flare - Mega Ether - SC - Flare

2nd pull:

Fire III - Fire II - Fire II - RS - Fire II - Flare - Convert - (Fire II only if SCH in party) - Flare - Mega Ether - SC - Flare

Still situational, but something like that is what I'd recommend.

[NyneAlexander]

i have yet to do extensive testing of either, as i've just begun to master the cold flare/hot flare rotation. But every time i've tried to do it in a real world setting (brayflox HM) stuff has died too fast for me to get to the 4th flare. Not necessarily because of my DPS, but because of the other DPS/WHM holys doing their thing too. And all of my recent T4 farms have been with 5 dps and 1 healer. I need to find some sucky DPS to run with so I can have enough time to properly test this rotation in real life.

[NoctisUmbra]

Shit dying too fast sounds like a good problem to have.

[Ringabell]

I've seen comments like the one in bold said numerous times. Along with other things like people counting the 2 seconds in their head. Are people guessing or using an internal clock? Are people unaware that you can just use the umbral ice buff timer to see your 2 second wait time? i.e. You get your tick at 8 seconds on your UI buff, you would start your cast at 6 seconds on your UI buff.

Just throwing it out there because i've seen enough people say things that lead me to believe they are kind of guessing at the 2 second window when the game gives you its own timer to use.

I feel like a total n00b now. Where is the timer?

[NyneAlexander]

after a weekend worth of testing in various dungeons, its safe to say that infinite flare > any other AoE rotation, EXCEPT when raging strikes is up. So use FIII, F2, Ranging strikes, F2, F2, Flare, convert, swift flare. After that Fire III, infinite flare, until you have raging strikes up again.

[silvio]

I feel like a total n00b now. Where is the timer?

the timer is where your buffs are. when you are in umbral ice or astral fire, you will have a timer for how long you stay in either. the timer refreshes when you cast another ice/fire spell to keep the stacks up.

the key to using flare after transpose is waiting for your first mana tick which varies depending on where you are in the server clock. im guessing, instead of counting 2 seconds in your head, he's suggesting you look at your UI timer and use that to count 2 seconds after you get your first mana tick. good idea.

[silvio]

You can do more then 3 flares with transpose but using flares after you transpose is a very big loss of dps

i'll have to agree with noctis and say that flaring after transpose is higher dps. it is counter-intuitive but my eyes were opened recently (by mrhappy lol). essentially, instead of casting fire3 after flare > transpose, you cast flare. even though you're casting it from UI, the potency is still higher than fire3, but more important, you're hitting multiple mobs. the only thing is you have to time it so that you get a tick of mana as your flare hits. this means waiting for your first tick of mana, counting 2 seconds and then casting flare. ideally you wanna see your second tick of mana as your flare is halfway through casting.

after, you'll be in AF3 with around 1200 mp. this is where i differ from noctis a bit. i'll fire2 and then flare, just because for me transpose isn't back up yet if i straight flare.

[NoctisUmbra]

i'll fire2 and then flare, just because for me transpose isn't back up yet if i straight flare.

Yeah I've heard this from a few sources. I want to say a mix of spell speed and how long after your transpose you get your MP tick can effect whether you have Transpose back up after your 2nd Flare...

So in general if you get a tick of MP basically immediately after you hit Transpose, it's safe to say you can squeeze in a Fire II between the Flares to further optimize.