Turn 2 Enrage question

[My_Wet_Rooster]

Why do people always abuse this mechanic during Turn 2 of the BCoB? I've been in there, maybe, five or ten times, and every one of those runs does it. It's really annoying when everyone follows the same strategy every single time. If people are relying on this one tactic to defeat a boss, then the people are terrible and don't know how the fight works whatsoever.

[Lemon8or]

Because it's easier and less prone to errors which happen quite a lot in DF. Also because people never learnt it the Rot passing way.

[Woggers]

And the best part is, by passing the rot you actually finish the instance faster!! But most people today just like to mash buttons and not think about mechanics even though it takes 5-6 more minutes to do it that way.

[My_Wet_Rooster]

But then you have the people who leave the session if there isn't a Bard, or if they don't defeat the ADS on the first go.

[Alanon]

But then you have the people who leave the session if there isn't a Bard, or if they don't defeat the ADS on the first go.

You just answered your own damn question. How many times have you done a titan ex where you did everything perfect but the collective group beats it's head against a rock (pun intended) for an extended period of time because a few can't dodge? How about Ifrit ex? Levi Ex? Not that I do T2 anymore, or have ever PUG'd it period, but I do not need one more encounter to do where I am ready to pull my hair out because people can't learn basic fight mechanics....

If you wanna have "fun" doing something the "right" way, go DF/PF a Ex Primal

[Sounders]

There's a risk that if you're in a PUG, you'll be with a bad group. And if you're in a bad group. you'll get multiple wipes and thus will take longer.
Do you really want to risk this, considering there's an easier way to clear the area?

[givemeraptors]

I wouldn't classify it as abuse. It's pretty clear you are meant to survive the initial start of enrage (though likely not the entire thing). Just look at all the other successful enrage mechanics in the game and it seems more deliberate. Also, T4 has a similar "soft" enrage, perhaps it was something they were experimenting with for First Coil?

Passing rot is faster sure, but in DF it is in your best interest to go with the easiest strategy as you don't know what level of communication or skill you're going to get and Echo will not save anyone from a botched rot pass.

[ispano]

I wouldn't classify it as abuse. It's pretty clear you are meant to survive the initial start of enrage (though likely not the entire thing). Just look at all the other successful enrage mechanics in the game and it seems more deliberate. Also, T4 has a similar "soft" enrage, perhaps it was something they were experimenting with for First Coil?

Passing rot is faster sure, but in DF it is in your best interest to go with the easiest strategy as you don't know what level of communication or skill you're going to get and Echo will not save anyone from a botched rot pass.

Actually they did say they weren't expecting it, not neccesarily intended though. Though with SE they won't change it even if it wasn't intended, unless it's a clear exploit. So on that, I WOULD call it abuse. You abuse the fact you can heal through a single mechanic, to bypass most if not all of the other mechanics. Abuse fits correctly.

[Kuwagami]

snip

Actually they did say they weren't expecting it, not necessarily intended though. Though with SE they won't change it even if it wasn't intended, unless it's a clear exploit. So on that, I WOULD call it abuse. You abuse the fact you can heal through a single mechanic, to bypass most if not all of the other mechanics. Abuse fits correctly.

Well, SE said the same thing about T5 and the "run-the-hill" method for dives. As we can bypass the mechanic by actually getting behind Twintania (which wasn't expected), you actually do not deal with the mechanic (ever tried to do it the regular way ? far more punishing). Yet SE applauded the realization of this instead of removing the hill.

In a general way, SE tries to congratulate thinking out of the box instead of fixing minor things they did not foresee, unless it really breaks the game (like the tree method for AK. At least in T2 enrage, the ADS has ONE attack which can kill you if healers derp)

[ispano]

Well, SE said the same thing about T5 and the "run-the-hill" method for dives. As we can bypass the mechanic by actually getting behind Twintania (which wasn't expected), you actually do not deal with the mechanic (ever tried to do it the regular way ? far more punishing). Yet SE applauded the realization of this instead of removing the hill.

In a general way, SE tries to congratulate thinking out of the box instead of fixing minor things they did not foresee, unless it really breaks the game (like the tree method for AK. At least in T2 enrage, the ADS has ONE attack which can kill you if healers derp)

Apples and oranges. Dodging divebombs this way, while simpler, is still JUST dodging the divebombs. It doesn't stop twister from happening. It doesn't stop the snakes from spawning. It doesn't stop dreadknights from spawning. It doesn't stop Liquid Hell. It doesn't stop hatch. So while, sure, you can say they're the same thing, they're not.

It is not abuse to take advantage of something using solely what the game gives you naturally. ie, it is not abuse to heal through an enrage (T2), use mechanics in a unique way (having your MT dive into conflags in T5 wasn't intended, but they're fine with that too), or find an alternate method of handling moves (using LOS on T6's Devour instead of hiding in briars, or quadruple stacking Renauds in T7 to make Cursed Voice/Shriek trivial). Full stop. People who claim these are abusive methods are coming from a place of absurdity, and seemingly have nothing to back their arguments beyond some claim to purism that S-E itself actively rejects.

Only abusive actions should be called as such. Height bugging is abusive. Breaking boss AI is abusive. Not doing Rot Passing isn't abusive. Please do not muddy this discussion.

Anyways, as others have mentioned T2 enrage is a method that is relatively foolproof, at the cost of some time (how much is usually gravely exaggerated by people who prefer Rot Passing; the actual different isn't that big). It is one that requires little coordination, making it good for groups who don't know each other beforehand. If you'd like to Rot Pass, join an FC and see if you can convince them to do it with you or something. Nothing is stopping you from finding other people who agree with your sentiment.

You abuse enrage to bypass the other mechanics. Plain and simple. It's not an exploit, nor have I ever said it was one. But you're abusing the fact that most or all of ADS' other mechanics stop when enrage hits, to effectively bypass them. Yes, it is abuse. I don't care if other people do it, I won't even bash people for doing it. But it's abuse, for sure.

And that's what it boils down to. The people who use this method don't want it called abuse, when that's actually what it is. Abuse doesn't make it an exploit. Abuse doesn't make it something SE will patch and prevent. It means you're abusing it, period.