Bards and BLMs ... is hard to control your aggro?

[LunarEmerald]

An i70 tank really shouldn't be having aggro problems against i90 dps. Now an i50 definitely would.

The problem sounds like you're switching off the target too soon. Too paranoid about losing hate on the others. You shouldn't be switching off the main target until you've done a couple full combos on it.

[WingsofWar]

if you look at the aggro meter itself, its pretty easy to see how good the tank is doing in terms of aggro, even dps is pulling off the tank sure there are a number of things that could be happening there, but if the dps is pulling off the tank AND the healer....someone isn't pressing their instant get hate button enough.

They should macro it for best results.

/ac "Claim"
/ac "Get Hate" <t>
/ac "laugh Out Loud" <t>
/"Manderville Dance"
/Win motion

best hate generating macro iv seen for WAR and PLD pulls. not even those pesky ilvl150 blm can hang.

[lololink]

If you need to slow down, you should slow down. It is not the tank's fault. Being less geared than the BLMs and Bards does not make a tank bad. If you are doing flash 100% of the time, when the heck are you going to do ROH? Or anything else? Paladins might as well be a flashing beacon then?

It depends on cases, 3 cases :
1 : only one target => Spam ROH combo.

2 : mutiples targets and you team wants to AOE like monsters => Spam flash all the time and regen with the MP regen combo.
Watch all the targets and their aggro to see if all of them takes all the flash.

3 : Multiples targets and you team is using monotargeting => use flash 2 or 3 times ( depending on the team ) to generates enough hate so the healer don't take aggro back on the monster, then you spam the ROH combo and use it on multiples targets, not only one until it dies, watch aggro on the other targets, especially with scholar and summoners that propagates their DoTs, if you have enough aggro to let the dps finish the mob without taking aggro back then switch target, so you will have extra aggro on the other monster and the dps will know what mob your are hitting and targets yours ( very annoying for a dps to wait for the tank to pick the next target ).

Even if they have 20 more ilvl than you they can't take aggro if the tank is good and they are not pulling instead of the tank.

[Foo01]

...
The problem sounds like you're switching off the target too soon. Too paranoid about losing hate on the others. You shouldn't be switching off the main target until you've done a couple full combos on it.

Well on brayflox HM, I don't have all day. I got like 6 or more mobs all being nuked and they all want to run off at some DPS. If I took any longer, it will be me with one mob and 5 of them on the BLM.

It depends on cases, 3 cases :
..
2 : mutiples targets and you team wants to AOE like monsters => Spam flash all the time and regen with the MP regen combo.
Watch all the targets and their aggro to see if all of them takes all the flash.
...

And flash does not seem reliable. Something always runs off anyways. I monitor that aggro meter very closely, but I can't see the aggro meters on all 6+ mobs at once.

[SendohJin]

If you need to slow down, you should slow down. It is not the tank's fault. Being less geared than the BLMs and Bards does not make a tank bad. If you are doing flash 100% of the time, when the heck are you going to do ROH? Or anything else? Paladins might as well be a flashing beacon then?

for more than 3 mobs, Flash spam is better. Halone combo is for 3 mobs or less.

i've played all those jobs PLD, BRD, BLM, SCH too. tank losing hate is not the end of the world if the healer can keep up. the DPS need to know they will pull hate and stay in AOE range so that stuff is not running all over the place. you only need to slow down if someone dies.

[Lunavi]

Not really. I just use QS.

[Gilraen]

I feel relying on Quelling Strikes to save yourself from your own hate generation to be a sign of poor damage management. But then I come from a game where hate management isn't as obvious as it is in XIV. In XI you only have the monster's visual behavior to work off of and only thieves could actually redirect hate. So in that environment you learn to throttle your damage, if it looks like the mob's about to look at you you STOP ATTACKING. So, in this game, when my hate icon turns yellow I slow down, orange I drop to auto-attacks. I only use Quelling Strikes when I burst out all my damage buffs because sure as hell I'll need it then. And that other hate bleed move... name fails me at the moment, I don't use at all cause I don't get that close.

[LunarEmerald]

Well on brayflox HM, I don't have all day. I got like 6 or more mobs all being nuked and they all want to run off at some DPS. If I took any longer, it will be me with one mob and 5 of them on the BLM.



And flash does not seem reliable. Something always runs off anyways. I monitor that aggro meter very closely, but I can't see the aggro meters on all 6+ mobs at once.

Nothing should be running off you if you spam flash till you're out of MP. Also be sure to circle of scorn when it's up.

[Diavolo]

Not really. I never use quelling strikes and never steal aggro in level appropriate dungeons. It's all about timing auto attacks between abilities. When helping with lower dungeons, though, it seems because my gear level is so significantly higher than the tank, my aggro builds up faster, but if I auto attack for a few seconds, it usually counteracts that. Just assume if someone is higher geared than you, you'll probably have to work to keep that aggro (assuming they don't know how to control it.) You can usually get a feel right away.

[Dijana]

Ilvl does make a difference. When I got pld 50 just recently I went into AK with 2 blms from my ls and had all sorts of trouble holding hate (at least they were nice and dialed it back a bit and/or acknowledged they were going overboard). I dont remember what my ilvl was then but I was in a mix of gear from i55-70. It's also pretty hard to get a handle on the situation once things start running everywhere. If its an off mob after you've been tanking for a bit, it's just a matter of provoke > shield lob, but when everyone attacks everything right at the start and you're having to run around flashing and shield lobbing it's pretty frustrating.

BRDs and BLMs definitely need to use quelling strikes, and it'd probably be nice if they didnt pop all their dmg buffs as soon as you pull. They can start casting/shooting right away for all I care, but when they're going to use raging strikes, crit buffs, everything they have and not quelling right away before I've even had a chance to flash that's their fault.

Of course, I'm also of the very strong opinion there are dps out there (not all of them of course) who think that pulling hate makes them good. If you're only going to play one role, you probably dont know what it's like for the others, and the only way to judge yourself is 'my dps was so high even the tank couldnt keep hate!' until you actually play tank and understand the rotation and setup and the frustration of trying to keep hate off overeager dps specifically targetting the mobs you aren't targetting.