In Game DPS Meter

[Awrini]

The funny thing is. SE doesn't have to make their own tool, the don't ask don't tell method works. If people want to use a parser they can, they just can't talk about it, thereby also being unable to criticize others for "substandard" performance. Win/Win

[JayCommon]

don't want it creates elitist BS .... you need X amount of dps or this job or you can't come to my party ... nope sorry its garbage... and in the live letter Yosi said this and they won't be implemented!!! /cheer

Luckily, good players don't need a "DPS tool" to see which out of their group isn't pulling their own weight. A DPS tool allows raids to crunch numbers and see where a good group can become great in a few specific areas that it is needed.

"Elitist BS" runs rampant without any parsers. It is painfully obvious if you aren't performing up-to-snuff. You can call it elitist all you want, but if you are dragging your feet in my coil group and expect us to pull you then you will get booted before you can even say "DPS Tool".

Edit: Sorry if I sound rude, but your response makes it seem so negative if people want to succeed in this game. If you want to be casual with your playstyle and not care about your personal level of aptitude then that is fine with me. Just don't ever server transfer and think you will join my endgame group.

[Sessurea]

just put a meter on the dummies. This should let ppl know if they are doing something drastically wrong with their rotations. Having good dps in boss fights obviously boils down to how well u know the fight, how fluent you are dodging mechanics.

Everyone is free to get their own damn abacus anyways =D

[TeganLaron]

If it's displayed to you and only to you then there is no way another player can confirm what your DPS actually is. Making what you said a moot point entirely. It wouldn't affect my ability to know what another players DPS is during a fight at all.

I think it would still lead to people's actual DPS numbers being an issue though. Every DPS would be asked how much they parse on dummies before entering a group. Although your idea is one of the best ones put forward, I personally just don't want it in the game as it will do more bad than good. Implementing things which could be abused such as the vote kick was a necessary evil, but DPS meters are just not needed that desperately.

[Tiggy]

The problem, even with personal DPS meters, is that unscrupulous parties will still demand to know and if you don't tell them then it's vote-kick. You can't control people or what they do no more than they can control you, but if you give the bad ones tools to be bad with then you're going to see just how bad they can get. Yoshi clearly wants to avoid this, and I say more power to him on that.

Whether or not they provide a personal method like I'm suggesting will not stop players from using third party parsers to do what you said anyway. It won't stop it at all. What that fear would do is prevent any tools for new players or existing players trying to improve themselves despite the fact players will parse anyway. Do you think that fear is a worthy reason to do absolutely nothing to help players improve themselves in a more private environment? do you think the answer is to give them no tools and just hope they pull it together for groups by some amount of sheer luck? I'm in the opinion that some sort of tool or event would be a valuable asset to new players wanting to break into end game, and if implemented well would be hard to abuse and only provide real value.

[KingOfAbyss]

All of this just because people wants to be number 1 in the entire World, for bragging.

I wouldnt mind the dummies: still, you can take screen shots and then people will still come out and ask your DPS.

Yes, it will create a separation with players. But.. it's already like this. So make your own PF, stating you want to be hyper-DPS SR 1 sec 1-shot 1 mistake you are booted.

We will do PF with: wanna have fun in the game? wiping a few time, finding how to work with different people, no ragequitters, but learners, taking 90min for a 90min dungeon.

This is not a game of high numbers: the only numbers that matters are the 4, 8, and future 24?

It's sad to see there is different levels of players (like in all games, normal I think) and that it's a form of derogative in which you will shun players who don't have x amount of DPS

But I used to go for the big numbers myself in other games. Playing magic glass cannons just for that! muhahahaha

This game just ain't the type, so I focus on the feeling of having a good bunch of peeps around me.

For those that wants it, best of luck.

[Tiggy]

I think it would still lead to people's actual DPS numbers being an issue though. Every DPS would be asked how much they parse on dummies before entering a group. Although your idea is one of the best ones put forward, I personally just don't want it in the game as it will do more bad than good. Implementing things which could be abused such as the vote kick was a necessary evil, but DPS meters are just not needed that desperately.

Then do something a little different maybe? Based on your current iLvl do something with broad rankings. Like a C, B, A, S ranking. You don't need to know your exact number, just that you aren't low. This could tie in maybe with a solo type event like another player suggested?

All of this just because people wants to be number 1 in the entire World, for bragging.

This is a false assumption. No, this isn't to be the best. As an example I'll use Turn 8. You don't need to be number 1 in the world but you do need very, very good DPS. Without some way to specifically see how you and you alone are doing you may end up in a situation where you're doing good damage but not good enough. Turn 8 is an extreme DPS check. So much so that the overall team damage required to win is outrageously high. I don't need to have the best DPS in the world but I do need to have extremely good DPS just to beat this content. This isn't about being Elite. This isn't about being #1. This is about knowing I can bring the DPS to the party that is absolutely hard enrage required to win. This isn't a situation where it's all "just about having fun" as the content itself requires this level of damage. We are simply players responding to the requirements of the game.

This is not at all about being Elite.

[Gilraen]

It many not be about being elite, but the people that want to be elite and be surrounded by only those who are just as elite will put any good tools to bad use. And third party tools were mentioned. Well, being third party tools and given Square already expressed sentiment regarding third party tools, anyone mentioning using third party tools will quickly have more pressing matters to deal with than another person's 'substandard' performance. This is as it should be, no one person has the right to dictate to others how they should play. Give suggestions if you see them using, or not using, certain strategies to boost their performance, but the moment you start demanding they do this or that you cross a line. I don't get how this is a difficult concept to grasp for some people... "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." and whatnot.

[Tiggy]

That's not a debate I'm trying to have in this thread. There appears to be another in main page debating that and you can join them there if you wish. I'm simply trying to discuss a way something like this could work. Not to point out every single negative thing someone could do with it. No one here is demanding anyone bring a certain amount of damage since I'm trying to come up with a useful a tool to help new players improve themselves. Not everything needs to be viewed from the one view point of "how it could be abused" especially considering parser already do that leaving legitimate players zero methods to improve. Fear causing inaction is a response that breeds absolutely nothing. By doing nothing we are throwing new players to the wolves with parsers that will continue to exist even if they add something like I'm requesting. We can do more to help players, and we should.

Can we please try to be constructive in this thread and leave ideological arguments somewhere else?

[AarinEphemera]

It's obvious why SE made parsers illegal...