In Game DPS Meter

[Gormogon]

Well for one you don't need a DPS meter to know if someone has a sound rotation and that is all that matters that it is sound.

For those saying you need dps meters to better yourself consider this. You can already check your DPS rotation by reading your abilities description. There's training dummies already in-game so go play around with them if you feel you're lacking or you want to better your damage rotation. Ask help from a player that's consider "the best" if you need to. There's no shame in it.

Always take situational awareness into consideration and find ways to optimize for inconsistencies. Not just in regards to your damage abilities for damage but also when you should consider making a judgement call on utility like stun, slow, and snare. If you need to consider saving your gap closers for certain phases. When as a bard you should consider using those songs and even the lv3 limit break. When as a caster you should use manawall, manaward, virus, lethargy, apocatastasis, sleep, eye for an eye, heal, and for those summoners battle res. So on and so on.

If you feel someone is lacking, gather everyone in the group never single someone out because as group the group needs to function to a certain capacity together not individually. Ask and make sure everyone has food and pots for raids. Check their rotations individually and see if they are sound.

Even sometimes despite having perfect DPS it's just a matter of practice and patience.

If you really want to make a difference start by truly aiding not by mocking those that are not up to your standards.

[kukurumei]

so stop complaining about "elitist" parties and make your own "casual" party. good lord people you complaint about a certain group but in reality you just want to be there in the group. if not then you wouldn't complain. you probably got told your numbers were bad and you have thin skin so butt hurt and complaints everywhere. because the big boys are better than me and won't let me play with them.

ugh. grow up.

Pott kettle in your case, double double black. Because you are specifically trying to ask for something you already have to justify something you already did.

Basically you're a big fat liar that is trying very hard to rewrite the laws to justify you are right.


Parsing is in the game. as long as you keep your mouth shut to personal use. No one is going to take it away.

What you're asking for is "Why should I shut up, I'm right" . You Grow UP as well.

We're not giving you a cake because you like cake.

[rockso]

Pott kettle in your case, double double black. Because you are specifically trying to ask for something you already have to justify something you already did.

Basically you're a big fat liar that is trying very hard to rewrite the laws to justify you are right.


Parsing is in the game. as long as you keep your mouth shut to personal use. No one is going to take it away.

What you're asking for is "Why should I shut up, I'm right" . You Grow UP as well.

We're not giving you a cake because you like cake.

do you even know what words you are writing or do you just press buttons? wtf are you saying.

[Tiggy]

Well for one you don't need a DPS meter to know if someone has a sound rotation and that is all that matters that it is sound.

I have someone in my freecompany who has had players work with them repeatedly on rotations but they still end up doing 100-150dps less than the average of the other groups. I myself thought at one point that my BLM rotation was solid until I found out I was pulling 100 DPS lower than others. Turns out that my rotation was good but I wasnt doing little things like aetherial manipulation. Please stop trying to assume there is a one size fits all solution when you say you should just pay attention to the rotations. It is not that easy in all situations and isnt a universal easy way to fix this. I would appreciate if you would try to step out of your box for a second and even attempt to try and see it from a different point of view. If your stand still damage is low then no amount of teamwork or learning the fight better will suddenly make your DPS shoot up. It does not work that way.

I'm not even asking for a real parser here. Just SOME way to get ANY feedback from the game. As it stands the only feedback you can get is from a parser. Square is forcing people to use them by provided no legitimate ways to gauge yourself other than to carry an entire group into the fight while you fail. This makes it so that we are forced to practice these rotations in situations where we are dragging teammates down with our fail.

Yes, some people define fun as doing things however they feel, but some of us find fun in optimization our rotations so that we can tackle the hardest content. Your definition of fun isn't any better than my definition of fun and there is no reason that square can't meet us half way. So can we please get this conversation back to a place where are aren't debating the merits of parser and are instead trying to find a middle ground where something like this could exist?

Parsing is in the game. as long as you keep your mouth shut to personal use. No one is going to take it away.

It's a third party application which is blatantly against the ToS and also completely unusable by anyone on a ps3/pst4. What about those playstation players? Are they third class citizens? Do they not deserve some method that legit for them to use to determine their performance? Please stop using the existence of illegal parsers as some reason NOT to do anything for players who don't like breaking the ToS. It is not good justification. Is not a good alternative. Please try harder to contribute to a useful discussion about how we can solve this problem.


Any and all flat out denial of the idea is off topic. Please go debate it elsewhere. I really want this to stay on topic. If you don't think it will ever happen then please stop debating it. I don't care why you think they are bad. I only want people to come up with possible solutions. Just saying NO isn't getting us anywhere closer to anything at all.

[Raenryong]

How do you know, from using training dummies, how much DPS is being lost as a result of functioning with mechanics etc in the fray? Everyone loses some DPS to disconnects, dodging, losing focus for a moment, etc.

[Tiggy]

My static does not use parsers, and we are able to function just fine, it's all about gauging who isn't doing their job properly. People assume that you can only tell who is messing up through an in instance parser, but that's not true. Judge their performance outside of the content in an isolated area. If your DPS aren't willing to admit that they might be messing up, then you have bigger issues with your party. If you're having problems with PUGs, then you just need to find another PUG or avoid them altogether. I've had bad experiences with many instances, if you're unable to clear content, something needs to change, and it's not the addition of a parser.

Looking at your achievements I can see you haven't done the second coil so it's clear to me that you don't understand the context I'm trying to solve this from. You must be doing the first coil still with the echo buff which makes it quite easy with all the new i100 gear. You will not run into the problem I'm trying to help solve because you aren't on the hardest content.

Once again. I don't care about the arguments for or against parsers or in game damage feedback. I only want a conversation about how we could create a feature that works. Stories about how you don't need them are not on topic. Especially when you aren't even running the newest end game. Go debate that in the other thread please.

How do you know, from using training dummies, how much DPS is being lost as a result of functioning with mechanics etc in the fray? Everyone loses some DPS to disconnects, dodging, losing focus for a moment, etc.

It's about understanding your potential and how to improve that potential. A stand still number can be seen as your ceiling and can still be a very valuable piece of information.

[JayCommon]

How to deal with poor DPS in your group for end game content WITHOUT needing a DPS meter!

snip

This is all great information, and I agree that you don't need parsers to see who is doing bad.

A lot of of us would like some kind of personal DPS meter because we are good, and we want to be great. What is so hard to understand about this? I play on PS4, I don't have the option to run a 3rd party parse. I feel like my rotation is solid, and I'm always hovering around top-2nd DPS on enmity, but how am I supposed to learn that I can squeeze another 5-10 DPS out of what I'm doing? I mean, how am I supposed to know it's even possible? Just take someone else's word for it? And then normally what you get with your PUG instance, is someone telling you how to do your rotation for you to examine their profile and they haven't even touched the class yet, let alone have the job.

Also, how does your instance solve the problem if the "leader" of this static in your example is the one who has the rotational issues, but won't admit it? Maybe the leader doesn't like to be told he is wrong? Maybe he doesn't respond well to criticism and it causes a rift in your static which throws a wrench into gained chemistry? Since we are dealing in hypotheticals here anyway.

Many of your examples you gave are quite easy to see in plain combat. You don't need parsers or tools to see if your DRG isn't keeping up HT or if you BRD is singing at appropriate times or not. These things all have visible buff/debuff icons for you to look at. It would be nice to have something more visible, for those of us who know our rotations but want to experiment on pushing the DPS to its limits. And I shouldn't have to ask anyone for help on that!!!! I can't stress that enough. I want to figure it out for myself, not have my hand held through the process.

This has all basically come down to "people not wanting to be judged by their DPS #". Stop deviating from the topic at hand. People do/will try to do bad and ignorant things with any type of anything we are given. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have it. You don't have to divulge your DPS to anyone. The instance given in the OP would be for personal use only. You can always avoid groups that demand the information.

[KingOfAbyss]

Well for one you don't need a DPS meter to know if someone has a sound rotation and that is all that matters that it is sound.

For those saying you need dps meters to better yourself consider this. You can already check your DPS rotation by reading your abilities description. There's training dummies already in-game so go play around with them if you feel you're lacking or you want to better your damage rotation. Ask help from a player that's consider "the best" if you need to. There's no shame in it.

Always take situational awareness into consideration and find ways to optimize for inconsistencies. Not just in regards to your damage abilities for damage but also when you should consider making a judgement call on utility like stun, slow, and snare. If you need to consider saving your gap closers for certain phases. When as a bard you should consider using those songs and even the lv3 limit break. When as a caster you should use manawall, manaward, virus, lethargy, apocatastasis, sleep, eye for an eye, heal, and for those summoners battle res. So on and so on.

If you feel someone is lacking, gather everyone in the group never single someone out because as group the group needs to function to a certain capacity together not individually. Ask and make sure everyone has food and pots for raids. Check their rotations individually and see if they are sound.

Even sometimes despite having perfect DPS it's just a matter of practice and patience.

If you really want to make a difference start by truly aiding not by mocking those that are not up to your standards.

/Clap

Another one that gets it.

----

I had the tought that SE wanted this game for casuals. Judging how perfect everyone needs to be at second coil, makes me wonder..

I myself thought at one point that my BLM rotation was solid until I found out I was pulling 100 DPS lower than others. Turns out that my rotation was good but I wasnt doing little things like aetherial manipulation.

Turns out your rotation wasn't good, since you just wrote that you skipped 'little things'.. that counts.

And how did you know exactly it was accurately 100 dps?

A BLM that needs to stand still for his perfect rotation, in a place that you have to move lots, might make a little less DPS.. althought I'm not sure.. and then adapt and come with a different rotation, that works.

oh and Jay, sadly

You don't have to divulge your DPS to anyone.

The problem will come, like these PF 1 mistake and your out.

now it will be: take a screen shot or record a video, give us the link on youtube so we will judge if you are decent (perfect) else kick.

[JayCommon]

oh and Jay, sadly The problem will come, like these PF 1 mistake and your out.

now it will be: take a screen shot or record a video, give us the link on youtube so we will judge if you are decent (perfect) else kick.

I know the problem will come. I even stated that in part of that same quote that you left out. I will quote it again because it needs to be read.

People do/will try to do bad and ignorant things with any type of anything we are given. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have it. You don't have to divulge your DPS to anyone. The instance given in the OP would be for personal use only. You can always avoid groups that demand the information.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. Crap like that is going to happen no matter SE gives us. Why should this stop them from giving it to us? And why can't the general player-base just GROW UP instead of getting all butt hurt over criticism? The PF is there for people to set parameters for their party. If you don't like their parameters, no one is forcing you to join that party? Try making your own PF with your own rules. If people want to do the content they will join it, and you will have the ability to kick anyone you deem too "elitist" or "hardcore".

Some of us have fun by trying to be the best. Not everyone who wants to be the best gets their jollies off by making the worst feel bad about them being bad.

[OPneedNerfs]

The problem is, good players avoid bad players like the plague. Yet bad players constantly seek out good players to carry them through content. In other words, the real problem lies in the bad players not wanting to group with other bad players and would rather join parties that request for good players and then qq about how they're mean because they didn't carry him through content.