In Game DPS Meter

[Gormogon]

Well for one you don't need a DPS meter to know if someone has a sound rotation and that is all that matters that it is sound.

For those saying you need dps meters to better yourself consider this. You can already check your DPS rotation by reading your abilities description. There's training dummies already in-game so go play around with them if you feel you're lacking or you want to better your damage rotation. Ask help from a player that's consider "the best" if you need to. There's no shame in it.

Always take situational awareness into consideration and find ways to optimize for inconsistencies. Not just in regards to your damage abilities for damage but also when you should consider making a judgement call on utility like stun, slow, and snare. If you need to consider saving your gap closers for certain phases. When as a bard you should consider using those songs and even the lv3 limit break. When as a caster you should use manawall, manaward, virus, lethargy, apocatastasis, sleep, eye for an eye, heal, and for those summoners battle res. So on and so on.

If you feel someone is lacking, gather everyone in the group never single someone out because as group the group needs to function to a certain capacity together not individually. Ask and make sure everyone has food and pots for raids. Check their rotations individually and see if they are sound.

Even sometimes despite having perfect DPS it's just a matter of practice and patience.

If you really want to make a difference start by truly aiding not by mocking those that are not up to your standards.

[Tiggy]

Well for one you don't need a DPS meter to know if someone has a sound rotation and that is all that matters that it is sound.

I have someone in my freecompany who has had players work with them repeatedly on rotations but they still end up doing 100-150dps less than the average of the other groups. I myself thought at one point that my BLM rotation was solid until I found out I was pulling 100 DPS lower than others. Turns out that my rotation was good but I wasnt doing little things like aetherial manipulation. Please stop trying to assume there is a one size fits all solution when you say you should just pay attention to the rotations. It is not that easy in all situations and isnt a universal easy way to fix this. I would appreciate if you would try to step out of your box for a second and even attempt to try and see it from a different point of view. If your stand still damage is low then no amount of teamwork or learning the fight better will suddenly make your DPS shoot up. It does not work that way.

I'm not even asking for a real parser here. Just SOME way to get ANY feedback from the game. As it stands the only feedback you can get is from a parser. Square is forcing people to use them by provided no legitimate ways to gauge yourself other than to carry an entire group into the fight while you fail. This makes it so that we are forced to practice these rotations in situations where we are dragging teammates down with our fail.

Yes, some people define fun as doing things however they feel, but some of us find fun in optimization our rotations so that we can tackle the hardest content. Your definition of fun isn't any better than my definition of fun and there is no reason that square can't meet us half way. So can we please get this conversation back to a place where are aren't debating the merits of parser and are instead trying to find a middle ground where something like this could exist?

Parsing is in the game. as long as you keep your mouth shut to personal use. No one is going to take it away.

It's a third party application which is blatantly against the ToS and also completely unusable by anyone on a ps3/pst4. What about those playstation players? Are they third class citizens? Do they not deserve some method that legit for them to use to determine their performance? Please stop using the existence of illegal parsers as some reason NOT to do anything for players who don't like breaking the ToS. It is not good justification. Is not a good alternative. Please try harder to contribute to a useful discussion about how we can solve this problem.


Any and all flat out denial of the idea is off topic. Please go debate it elsewhere. I really want this to stay on topic. If you don't think it will ever happen then please stop debating it. I don't care why you think they are bad. I only want people to come up with possible solutions. Just saying NO isn't getting us anywhere closer to anything at all.

[KingOfAbyss]

Well for one you don't need a DPS meter to know if someone has a sound rotation and that is all that matters that it is sound.

For those saying you need dps meters to better yourself consider this. You can already check your DPS rotation by reading your abilities description. There's training dummies already in-game so go play around with them if you feel you're lacking or you want to better your damage rotation. Ask help from a player that's consider "the best" if you need to. There's no shame in it.

Always take situational awareness into consideration and find ways to optimize for inconsistencies. Not just in regards to your damage abilities for damage but also when you should consider making a judgement call on utility like stun, slow, and snare. If you need to consider saving your gap closers for certain phases. When as a bard you should consider using those songs and even the lv3 limit break. When as a caster you should use manawall, manaward, virus, lethargy, apocatastasis, sleep, eye for an eye, heal, and for those summoners battle res. So on and so on.

If you feel someone is lacking, gather everyone in the group never single someone out because as group the group needs to function to a certain capacity together not individually. Ask and make sure everyone has food and pots for raids. Check their rotations individually and see if they are sound.

Even sometimes despite having perfect DPS it's just a matter of practice and patience.

If you really want to make a difference start by truly aiding not by mocking those that are not up to your standards.

/Clap

Another one that gets it.

----

I had the tought that SE wanted this game for casuals. Judging how perfect everyone needs to be at second coil, makes me wonder..

I myself thought at one point that my BLM rotation was solid until I found out I was pulling 100 DPS lower than others. Turns out that my rotation was good but I wasnt doing little things like aetherial manipulation.

Turns out your rotation wasn't good, since you just wrote that you skipped 'little things'.. that counts.

And how did you know exactly it was accurately 100 dps?

A BLM that needs to stand still for his perfect rotation, in a place that you have to move lots, might make a little less DPS.. althought I'm not sure.. and then adapt and come with a different rotation, that works.

oh and Jay, sadly

You don't have to divulge your DPS to anyone.

The problem will come, like these PF 1 mistake and your out.

now it will be: take a screen shot or record a video, give us the link on youtube so we will judge if you are decent (perfect) else kick.

[Tiggy]

I had the tought that SE wanted this game for casuals. Judging how perfect everyone needs to be at second coil, makes me wonder..

It doesn't matter what you "think" what matters is what is right in front of our face. Fights with extremely serious DPS checks. Please try to understand that your opinion isn't important in scenarios like turn 8. The damage required to win is.

Turns out your rotation wasn't good, since you just wrote that you skipped 'little things'.. that counts.

This isn't about me or my damage that I've since fixed. Stop trying to distract from the conversation while focusing on something that was simply used as example of why what you were saying doesn't work in all situations. This is distracting the point of this discussion.

Since no one wants to get back on topic I figured I'd throw in a bone to get us back on track.

I was thinking something like guildhests for solo play might be a good idea. You can have a series of them for each of the three positions.

The DPS ones could be tiered such that each successive tier requires more DPS. Similar to how t8 is (with 4 dreads) 1,120,000 / (11*60) = 1696.96 DPS we could have small one person fights that have a specific time limit where a specific amount of damage must be done. This would make it so if you are able to clear the S-rank (or whatever it could be called) missions then you know you have enough to tackle this content. Also to avoid any conflict make sure we don't tie any rewards or titles to it. This way it's entirely personal.

For Tank we could have something you simply need to take a beating and survive for X amount of time. Each tier can focus on different types of damage. One could be dread training where you're hit by one massive enemy, or another where you have many enemies and you must handle mobs.

For healer it could be different scenarios. Some where you have to quickly remove debuffs (like we need in moogle mog), one where we need to heal many people at once, one where one person is getting hit like a truck and the heals need to be focused and hard.

I think a series of fights like these could easily be enough to gauge you're ability to handle certain end game elements if they are designed well. Any thoughts guys?

[Raenryong]

I think a series of fights like these could easily be enough to gauge you're ability to handle certain end game elements if they are designed well. Any thoughts guys?

I like it. You could even have ones where you have to do x amount of dps (or healing) while dodging etc.

[JayCommon]

ideas

I really like these ideas. Especially tying guildhests to something meaningful, because I feel like guildhests is an untapped resource in this game that could be made extremely useful/fun.

The only thing I would like to add (maybe this was implied but I just didn't realize) is the information you want to see being on some kind "end-screen". For instance,

YOU FAILED!

Minimum DPS needed to complete: 140 DPS

Your DPS : 132 DPS

Very bare-bones but could be applied to all classes. Mitigated Damage: ??? Amount Healed: ??? etc.

For these DPS fights, I would also suggest that there is no auto-attacking by mobs, BUT put the mechanics in as one-shot kills so there is a reason to progress. Get hit by the circle? Auto-fail. Also for higher tiers, put burst DPS sections in where adds pop and you have X amount of time to make sure they are all dead, or you fail. Could help players manage their CDs better on top of striving for better DPS.

Opinions?

[Edellis]

I really like these ideas.
The only thing I would like to add (maybe this was implied but I just didn't realize) is the information you want to see being on some kind "end-screen". For instance,

YOU FAILED!

Minimum DPS needed to complete: 140 DPS

Your DPS : 132 DPS

Opinions?

Don't like it at all, it isn't really needed. The same effect would be achieved by visually telling you a boss is about to bone you with a One-Hit because you failed a DPS phase.

But explicitly pointing fingers at DPS is a terrible way to advance the game. It's almost like breaking the 4th wall of RPG gaming, it works in competitive PVP games but not so well in games like FFXIV.

[JayCommon]

Don't like it at all, it isn't really needed. The same effect would be achieved by visually telling you a boss is about to bone you with a One-Hit because you failed a DPS phase.

But explicitly pointing fingers at DPS is a terrible way to advance the game. It's almost like breaking the 4th wall of RPG gaming, it works in competitive PVP games but not so well in games like FFXIV.

This is a solo instance....no one would see this but you if you participated.....

[Moheeheeko]

This is a solo instance....no one would see this but you if you participated.....

but didn't you hear? this game is the MMO equivalent to 'No child left behind' nobody is bad, everyone is special! How dare you inform them that they are sub-par in anything!

Or at least that's what the posts in this thread lead me to believe.