SMN in T8

[Altimis]

Thing is, At first I actually don't believe Ifrit gonna beat Garuda at all, I think the same as you. At first I was fun thinking compare both Ifrit and Garuda because my gears get stronger and stronger, I wonder if my gears will improved Ifrit so that's it, bring it on, can Ifrit win DPS over Garuda? we have Bard, we have Foe and Battle voice, we have Contagion! Garuda per hit is hit harder than Ifrit as you see, no way Garuda gonna lose Ifrit with over DPS result, that what I thinking when I try with Ifrit

I make sure I did everything correctly, I practice rotation with Ifrit before I attempt T8 (I been practice like full weeks? to find out what is best possible whole highest DPS for Ifrit using) I squeeze it out everything with seriousness, I make sure I really really ditch everything, every knowledge, every rotation both best rotation and my own rotation, squeeze every of my brain cells to think what is possible to do highest of highest DPS and no single mistake in rotation (I must tell you first, rotation I use with Ifrit and Garuda is a bit different so), I maximize every spell/skill usage and no down time, no OOM or less OOM

But result? surprised, its tell different story, I don't know what to say here, its just simple, you go do T8, and just compare both, what better, its tell me Ifrit is better, I didn't just do it on Strike Dummy too

I have no words to say more, I just simple continue using Ifrit just because its damn simple result telling me "Yo Ifrit have edge over Garuda" unless result is broken shit which its not possible, when I choose to believe something, I carefully check if its look correct first, I will not rush to conclude

[NightReach]

I tried ifrit to entertain some people but its not worth it, contagion is just too strong. If ifrit is coming on top of your parses, I can only say you dont really know how to use contagion at the right places.

[Staris]

I severely doubt any current parser accurately reflects contagion / buffs

[NightReach]

The thing with contagion is that its too good in too many places. It work with all dots including poison potions, artificially lengthens any DPS buff you apply, and perhaps most importantly it saves you close to 700 mana every 60 sec...

[Madoka]

Garuda

Contagion on RS dots, Mega/X int pots and potent poison pots beats out ifrit's maybe 10 dps gain over Garuda.

[Ryuko]

I'm surprised there are people advocating for using Ifrit on this fight. Not only does Contagion give you equal dps potential to Ifrit's slight advantage (because you can time it, for example, when a dreadnought is coming and keep your dots ticking on the main boss while at the same time killing a dreadnought fast -- in my experience a dreadnought dies a few seconds before Bio is about to wear off), but this fight is also a HUGE mana sink. It's long. There's really not much to dodge (besides popping your assigned towers and moving for marks)... a lot of it is just sitting on the boss's butt, so you're not going to naturally regen as much mana as you would on a fight that has 'breaks' of dodging. On the plus side, that also means there's almost no time when you should be using Ruin 2, the exception being if you are popping buffs not on the GCD and want to squeeze in as much damage as possible. I like contagion on this fight because it helps me conserve mana. Ruin spam filler is 79 mp... recasting dots more often? More mp. I haven't even finished this fight yet (50% about) but I can already tell mana conservation is important, and Contagion does help with that.

[Altimis]

I think its useless to continue my post here since people will never listen and will not open their mind and yet will truly believe Contagion conserve their MP and able to out DPS Ifrit in T8 fight, I bet you people not even care to do experiment and open your eyes to the truth, I don't see what the point to post more because only bullcrap all I see is Contagion almost everywhere and with MP conserve, I even wonder if your Bard never do their jobs or Bard is hard to find for T8

I done here, My purpose here is not to convict people to use Ifrit, I come here to say I use Ifrit in T8 in first place and if people wonder why Ifrit, I answered. People happy with Garuda so I don't see why I should try to argue on that

[Seaku]

I think its useless to continue my post here since people will never listen and will not open their mind and yet will truly believe Contagion conserve their MP and able to out DPS Ifrit in T8 fight, I bet you people not even care to do experiment and open your eyes to the truth, I don't see what the point to post more because only bullcrap all I see is Contagion almost everywhere and with MP conserve, I even wonder if your Bard never do their jobs or Bard is hard to find for T8

Alright.. I'll bite, let's do some simple math for contagion. Every minute you get to extend your dots 15 seconds, which means you get to use 5 more ruins (89 mana each) instead of recasting your dots and two ruins (106+186+133+89+89) in the same amount of time. You can probably fit one more ruin into each set there but that's not going to broaden the gap more.

So comparing that you get 445 compared to 603 mana spent in the same time. Take this over a 10 minute fight, you save 1588 mana. That's 2 Aetherflow and an energy drain it saves you. So this puts you a full 2 minutes ahead in terms of mana over titan or ifirt. (This is off course a rough estimate). So yes it does conserve you MP, a LOT of mp.

I have tried ifirt and garuda on this fight, over the course of the WHOLE fight, garuda makes us a pair do more damage. Simply because of foes and the fact that I have to use ED far less. On T8 with a solitary bard and healers that don't need that much from mage's ballad will cause you to use ED over the course of that fight. Especially since a soilitary bard in this fight will be using army's paeon or foes if the healers don't need the mana. If I'm using ifirt I have to ED a good two minutes ahead of when I'd need to as garuda. That's 150 potency loss per ED. Ifirt is not going to make up for that with his 10 dps difference. I don't currently use pots but even then having 3 contagioned raging strikes over the course of that fight pushes garuda way ahead already.

I done here, My purpose here is not to convict people to use Ifrit, I come here to say I use Ifrit in T8 in first place and if people wonder why Ifrit, I answered. People happy with Garuda so I don't see why I should try to argue on that

Also you've said this like 2-3 times, you've offered no proof to the contrary that Ifirt is better other than your hearsay. You've said you aren't trying to convince other people but you seem to be trying pretty hard without any evidence at all.

[Madoka]

There's no "opening our eyes"

Ifrit simply does not do enough increased DPS to outweigh stat boosted dot damage to begin with. 5 more ticks of 20% boosted damage every 3 minutes, 5 more ticks of 84 Int boosted damage every 7 minutes, 5 more ticks of your potent poison potion (static damage) for 2 potions per 3 minutes. Garuda also benefits from Foes which will be up for at least 2 minutes of the fight, and possibly 3-6 minutes depending on if you have 2 bards and if mages ballad is needed. Ifrit's dps lead is usually 8~12 dps, assuming garuda's dps is 90 and ifrits is 100 unbuffed, garuda ends up at 99 while foes is up, 108 with BV. If you have a mnk then ifrit is gaining from dragon kick for one of his attacks, if not then nope. So as an 11 minute fight at the longest, and assuming a minimum of 2 minutes where Garuda and ifrit are at least matched, we have 9 minutes of Ifrit possibly doing more damage. 540 seconds. If his dps is 10 higher thats 5400 more damage than Garuda would put out. We'll round up to 6000 for his enkindle dot and gaining more from rouse/spur than garuda.

In an 11 minute fight we will use Contagion at least 10 times. This is 150 seconds of more ruins. Ruin is a 2.5 GCD. In i90 gear your ruin should be hitting 200 minimum. In 150 seconds you can fit in 60 Ruins. 60x200 is 12000.
Every potent poison pot is getting another 5 ticks, doubling its damage from 250 to 500. We'll assume you got to use 6 in the fight for 9 minutes worth of CD on it. Thats 1500 damage normally, 3000 damage thanks to contagion. 1500 more damage over the course of the fight that wasn't there as well.
Now this is obviously not how your extra time from contagion always goes but after factoring in at least 75 seconds of either RS or Int potion boosted dots that otherwise would have expired I think you get a comparable gain it's pretty clear from a bullshit math standpoint that Contagion is doing a lot more than anything Ifrit is doing.

[Zamii]

i considered at first explaining how ifrit works in relation to garuda, along with many other points, but since im to lazy and lets be honest, no one who is in the "garuda only or gtfo" catagory wont really care to read it, so i decided this;
most of these groups people are in are more than capable of loosing 200+ raid dps and still beating the fight with room to spare, so i say this, any of the people who sware to use garuda and only garuda and have a monk in their turn 8 party, try it out once or twice and post back, you will be surprised with the results.