Dragoons need to be buffed...

[Sygmaelle]

Why?
1. Darnus doesn't take dot damage in the air.
2. You can't have golems close for bane or they will merge and you die.
3. Only during Heaven's Fall can a smn do a bane that is strong.

Ok so, summoners opening up with X pot and doubled requiem foe = breaking 550 dps without much problems.

No, they arent full high allagan, yes one of the two I run with already reached 600 while he got everything up + doubled foe

Then, he just maintain 400 all the way up to the golems spawn and pull out 360 - 390 when golems are up.

And you re tellin me that you re the king as a dragoon ? there's no way unless you re playin with average dpsers. You can't catch up with a well played summoner no matter how hard you believe it

Also hes doin 400 ish on Turn 8 with ilvl102 or something among these lines. That you can keep up with if you re not goin an any single mine, otherwise its -10 dps each time you take the furthest spawning ones that are on the right or left.

[Feylie]

It's irrelevant if such situations are forced on the classes or not. The point is how mandatory the positions are. In other words, who can get by without their position-based abilities more readily.

[rickyguo]

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You're overestimating the 15% extra healing on Mantra and the INT debuff. Like I said, monks have more variance in their DPS. Even at the same ilevel, it can be as wide as 100+dps between each and every monks. And why are you still on about Mnk vs Drg anyway? Coil 2 is completely fine (even better on turn 7) to have 2 melee DPS. Are you going to complain when Ninja (if DPS) comes out as well?

That's not more variance, that's just people being bad.

I see i90 drgs do like 150 dps, does that mean that drgs have high variance as well? Variance is only a result of a class being proc based not because people can't push buttons properly.

monk+monk is higher than drg+monk unless you have 2 very geared bards.

[Stormfur]

I have a question, and it seems I can't post a new thread yet so hopefully this is the next best place...

I have a main tank character and am considering creating an alt just to try out the Lancer/Dragoon class. Is it worth it? (I'm on console if that matters.).

[Alenore]

2) You are assuming that every bard given the 10% buff is going to push my over all dps for the raid above the monk. That isn't always the case.

And in that same pt where the BRD sucks and doesn't make a good use of that 10% buff, the MNK can be crappy and pull 150 dps.
That argument is retarded.

[Lemon8or]

That's not more variance, that's just people being bad.
I see i90 drgs do like 150 dps, does that mean that drgs have high variance as well? Variance is only a result of a class being proc based not because people can't push buttons properly.

var·i·ance
the state, quality, or fact of being variable, divergent, different, or anomalous.
Anything that makes it different is a variance whether it's luck or players' skills. I've as well seen monks and dragoons that do below 150 or even 100 dps but that's not the basis I was using. As I've shown in past pages, a disconnect hurts monks more than dragoons due to having a more than 9 seconds difference between the two to get back to maximum output state so it only makes sense that when there is no disconnect, monks should do a bit more than dragoons by themselves. And monk + monk might be slightly higher than dragoon + monk (due to monks having synergy with each other) but monk + monk + bard might only net you like 5-10 dps more than dragoon + monk + bard if even that much. This assumes equal gears and equal skills which are most likely not always the case so that's where you're seeing differences on a case by case basis.

[rickyguo]

[QUOTE=Lemon8or;2160324 This assumes equal gears and equal skills which are most likely not always the case so that's where you're seeing differences on a case by case basis.[/QUOTE]

You can't compare classes without factoring equal gears and skill. I can go out and record 100 monks doing like 150 dps and then claim that monks are awful and requires a buff. When you have two people doing two different things, you can't claim that the class has variance. That only apples if both parties are doing the same rotation with equal gear and skill. You can claim that there's a skill variance between people but that's irrelevant of the class they're playing. Variable means not consistent or having a fixed pattern, and you can't claim inconsistency when you compare with people that's not pressing buttons. If you take 2 monks with equal gear, doing the same rotation at a dummy, they'll be within 5-10 dps of each other, with differences due to crit. That's not variance. Now if you take two blms, it could be hugely different due to proc chances, since they're a class with variance as they're proc based in some degree.

Also, monk+bard is more damage than dragoon+bard, so if you bring 2 monks, who buff each other to a party; you're getting even more dps. Yes, it makes sense that if there's no disconnect, monks should have higher dps but the issue is that the dps is high enough that even with a couple of disconnects via coil2, the monk will outdps the drg+bard buff.

I mean, I don't really care that much about getting a buff but there's no argument that bringing monks over drgs in 2nd coil is better in every way from a pure dps standpoint. I honestly just want elusive jump cd halved or something. There's no reason that should be 180 second cd.

[zlotjko]

So i was in T8 as a mnk (ilvl 96 then, animus weap) and had a Drg with me (ilvl 101 iirc with upgraded t7 weap). We also had a bard (had around 280 dps).
We talked abit after the fight (he had like 7 dps more then me) and came to a conclusion. Nether of us is special. Doing rough around 360 dps (whole fight) was good enough. Because he didn't had to maintain GL, so he (drg) took the backup role (and lost dps because of that role).

When the next time i took that role (just testing) my dps was around 20 lower (i think i lost once or twice the GL because of mines and missiles and towers).

So what am trying to say is that mnk it bound to the enemy and disconnects hurt them more. The Drg can do more stuff without that much of a penalty.
Thus, they are 2 separate roles, one, that is glued to the tank (enemy) and the other that keeps the mechanics in check and contributes to the dps of the raid (via bard) and can literally jump in out of the fight.
I will probably have higher dps with novus then the DRG. But if i have to do more mechanics, i will do less then the drg if he does it.

[Empressia]

That's not more variance, that's just people being bad.

I see i90 drgs do like 150 dps, does that mean that drgs have high variance as well? Variance is only a result of a class being proc based not because people can't push buttons properly.

monk+monk is higher than drg+monk unless you have 2 very geared bards.

even real good dragoons DO HAVE variances in dps due to all jumping skills do crit or not, its quite a huge variance when our full all out burst rotation is doing all crit, 50-50 crit or no crit at all and ofc u can't compared sustained damage dealers like MNKs with burst damage dealers like us DRGs