DPS Tool

[Gormogon]

people don't like being told that they are under performing?

Telling people that they are under performing is a huge "under"statement.

Where do elitist draw the line?

If someone's Max DPS with BiS gear is 700 do you complain when someone else can't do that 700? If you consider them lenient where do you think they draw the line 699? 690? 650? 500? 300? Be honest.

Since as far as I can tell some people go bonkers when they see ilvl60-80 on the expert dungeons. I've even some players literally losing their sanity in a DF/PF Brayflox HM when it takes 20-30 seconds more than their average high ilvl group of friends they usally SR with.

That's the reason why "muh dps meter" mentality is a huge demerit. So since going to extremes is the only way to get a point across I'll say this elitist with parsers have this mentality. "He did 5 dps less than average? He should literally be raided by every known agency and locked for life." All for wasting everyone's time because of 5DPS.

The majority of people with meters aren't lenient they use it to gloat and insult other players on average. Especially when those same people wont give "avoided" and "buffed/supported" the time of day.

[AliceVirgin]

Snip.

Yet im sure your the first to kick out a tank or healer who "aint doing there job" and making you wipe

[Gormogon]

Yet im sure your the first to kick out a tank or healer who "aint doing there job" and making you wipe

Only thing I have 0 tolerance for is jerks not bad players.

[Alise]

Where do elitist draw the line?

If someone's Max DPS with BiS gear is 700 do you complain when someone else can't do that 700? If you consider them lenient where do you think they draw the line 699? 690? 650? 500? 300? Be honest.

Since as far as I can tell some people go bonkers when they see ilvl60-80 on the expert dungeons. I've even some players literally losing their sanity in a DF/PF Brayflox HM when it takes 20-30 seconds more than their average high ilvl group of friends they usally SR with.

That's the reason why "muh dps meter" mentality is a huge demerit. So since going to extremes is the only way to get a point across I'll say this elitist with parsers have this mentality. "He did 5 dps less than average? He should literally be raided by every known agency and locked for life." All for wasting everyone's time because of 5DPS.

The majority of people with meters aren't lenient they use it to gloat and insult other players on average. Especially when those same people wont give "avoided" and "buffed/supported" the time of day.

Is that what happen in NA region?
I don't think they will be overboard that much. when you said different of 5 DPS make people rage, it can already tell that you never actually checking parse and assume all this.

Anybody check them will know that each runs with a different of 10 dps is normal thing. at the level when you could do above 400 dps, then you could have variance range of 20 dps sometimes, so I don't think people will care just 5 dps different.

I will tell you thought, when people complain, it is something like this.
Monk #1 420 dps.
Monk #2 200 dps.

Something that is below half of another players. and I wonder if it is so bad to let that guy realize?
(P.S. it is common to see one person in party doing below half of other too btw, and most people couldn't detect the person and would just play until the guy was pulled up so that he can do bad on next party.)

[Gormogon]

snip

Good and bad is not something that's exclusive to NA. Yet the whole elitist mentality born from over competitiveness is something that you can notice a lot in gamers brought up in the American culture for obvious reasons more than other nations that do house their own form of it because of how obviously "vocal" they tend to be.

Yes I don't use parsers because I don't care for them. Parsers aren't gonna let the group know that I used virus or lethargy on the boss, eye for an eye or apocatastasis on a group member, that I avoided some mechanics with manawall, manaward, aetherial manipulation. That I'm off healing because the tank is low and the healer has died and we can drag it out and still down the fight. As well as the fact that everyone's dead and instead of allowing myself to die at 2% I kite and scathe and finish it off. Parsers don't take these kind of situational occurrences into consideration. Parsers are primarily used so people can know their MAX DPS Numbers.

There's a difference of letting a person know that implementing an ability in their rotation would allow them to do more damage over "omg wtf is your problem noob? Don't you know how to DPS? Play something else or uninstall".

[Raenryong]

Yes I don't use parsers because I don't care for them. Parsers aren't gonna let the group know that I used virus or lethargy on the boss, eye for an eye or apocatastasis on a group member, that I avoided some mechanics with manawall, manaward, aetherial manipulation. That I'm off healing because the tank is low and the healer has died and we can drag it out and still down the fight. As well as the fact that everyone's dead and instead of allowing myself to die at 2% I kite and scathe and finish it off. Parsers don't take these kind of situational occurrences into consideration. Parsers are primarily used so people can know their MAX DPS Numbers.

That's not true though - parsers can tell you all of the above.

There's a difference of letting a person know that implementing an ability in their rotation would allow them to do more damage over "omg wtf is your problem noob? Don't you know how to DPS? Play something else or uninstall".

You're presenting a worst case scenario as an argument against far more common average scenarios.

[Cherie]

I really think this is being discussed to levels that aren't really realistic.

Is SE going to create/allow a DPS measuring tool of some kind?: Probably not. Why? Just look at these forums, so much verbal abuse. They are smart to limit what is allowed in this way. Each game has a demographic, and apparently ours for this game is a bit abusive.

Are DPS tools in general a bad thing in other games like WoW, Rift, etc?: If other developers allow them in their own games, it's totally up to them and it's not a bad choice. It can be a useful thing to have in those games.

To me, this is basically the right to bare arms debate. Are guns dangerous? Yes, they are. Do guns kill people? People kill people, guns just make it easier. If used appropriately, guns can enforce order (ex. Police, Army). I think these forums prove we probably would use such a tool inappropriately. Until such a time that we would use a DPS tool properly, I doubt SE will budge on this issue.

Ultimately though, it's those people that would use a DPS tool for abuse towards others that are preventing SE from allowing us from having one for legitimate use.

[Alukah]

-snip-

I honestly doubt that would be fixed with a DPS meter, the problem there lies in the ridiculously low ilvl requirement and how badly ilvl is calculated, Copperbell and Haukke HM difficulty should either be toned down enough for i48 players or change the ilvl requirement, while expert dungeons should be toned higher, the first time I did expert dungeons I couldn't believe they were so much easier than high level dungeons, it's beyond logic.

I think SE just needs to implement it and punish people hard when they use it for the wrong reasons. On the other hand, telling someone "your dps is on the lower end" is something people should be able to take. Plenty of us to go over rotations.

I think that's exactly what they want to avoid, having to hire more people to patrol this when this tool isn't even a necessity.

[ziddyt]

this tool isn't even a necessity.

Says someone who's never done Coil.
If a group is not meeting the DPS checks in the end-game content, they need to know why, there's no debating that. It's SE who designed these encounters and chose to include DPS races (and proceeded to pretend that players should think DPS doesn't matter.) If we don't want people to parse, then there shouldn't be any soft or hard enrage in a fight.

And it's a moot point. The people you're worried about, elitists, 99% of them are already using parsers. It's already possible for people to cause all of the problems people are fearing. The only thing this is doing (and I realize SE wouldn't make an official parser, but as someone mentioned earlier, release the API already!) is depriving the decent players of accurate and reliable numbers, and preventing people who are afraid of using third party programs from having actual, verifiable ways to track their improvement and skill.

[Viridiana]

Parsers aren't gonna let the group know that I used virus or lethargy on the boss, eye for an eye or apocatastasis on a group member, that I avoided some mechanics with manawall, manaward, aetherial manipulation. That I'm off healing because the tank is low and the healer has died and we can drag it out and still down the fight. As well as the fact that everyone's dead and instead of allowing myself to die at 2% I kite and scathe and finish it off. Parsers don't take these kind of situational occurrences into consideration.

If you're going to argue against something, at least educate yourself as to what it entails. Parsers do, in fact, display every single bit of information you just mentioned.