DPS Tool

[scarebearz]

I expect a lot of the people calling out "discrimination" are the ones who join a "Farm Party" for Ex's and expect to be carried.

[Dhex]

Avoiding or decrying the use/need for a Parser because some people may use it to discriminate is like staying illiterate or burning libraries down because some books have bad words and foreign concepts in them.


Knowing what you're doing and how to improve is real freakin' neato.

[Kimikryo]

even without a DPS tool, people harass others for "under performing" as it is already.

If all had the same game implemented DPS tool, you could call someones bull out. Now "Your DPS sucks I did xxx more than you, my parser tells me" commence chocobo droppings hitting the fan. Future "Your DPS sucks I did xxx more than you, my parser tells me" "You sure know we all have this parser at know you are lying" commence goobbue droppings hitting the fan.


If someone wants to be mean, he doesn't need DPS tools, they'll find something. And even if it just is "Your miqo has the standard face, kick" :|

[SarcasmMisser]

Someone who plays a dps job doesn't like dps checks. Hmmm

[Marcusow86]

I am fine with SE not integrating DPS tool into the game but please do legalize the usage of 3rd party DPS meter.

Without DPS meter, i cannot improve myself.
Without DPS meter, i cannot know the '1-2-3' DRG standing beside me is slacking. (illustration)
Without DPS meter, i cannot gauge the miss rate to extract the ACC cap for boss fight.

I mean, tbh, those who uses DPS meter for boasting and to confront fellow DPS mate because they did 20-30 DPS lower can be categorize as a jerk but believe me when i say i see people doing half of what a DPS should be doing in that content with the same gear. These is the kind of people i am trying to exclude in my future raid/duty as they are obviously expecting a carry or do not want to engage in learning to be better.

[Ikeda]

I am fine with SE not integrating DPS tool into the game but please do legalize the usage of 3rd party DPS meter.

Without DPS meter, i cannot improve myself.
Without DPS meter, i cannot know the '1-2-3' DRG standing beside me is slacking. (illustration)
Without DPS meter, i cannot gauge the miss rate to extract the ACC cap for boss fight.

I mean, tbh, those who uses DPS meter for boasting and to confront fellow DPS mate because they did 20-30 DPS lower can be categorize as a jerk but believe me when i say i see people doing half of what a DPS should be doing in that content with the same gear. These is the kind of people i am trying to exclude in my future raid/duty as they are obviously expecting a carry or do not want to engage in learning to be better.

They can't legalize it because legalizing 3rd party add ons would open the doors for cheating and bot programs.

[LalaRu]

Well, I agree on SE not wanting group dps parsers, because they will be used more for harassing than for other purposes.
But I think if your client show just your own dps, does not hurts anybody, and helps me decide which rotation more effective when I'm in dubt.

Then, about "slacking" dps, I can write books on that. But the essential is when you PUG and the dps of overall group is not enough, you will notice it and then it is your choose if keep on the group or leave the group. Enter a PUG and then pretend to kick out bad apples and keep in the good players is quite nonsense. PUGs are give or take. You will make selection on premades.

[Gormogon]

Well, I agree on SE not wanting group dps parsers, because they will be used more for harassing than for other purposes.
But I think if your client show just your own dps, does not hurts anybody, and helps me decide which rotation more effective when I'm in dubt.

Then, about "slacking" dps, I can write books on that. But the essential is when you PUG and the dps of overall group is not enough, you will notice it and then it is your choose if keep on the group or leave the group. Enter a PUG and then pretend to kick out bad apples and keep in the good players is quite nonsense. PUGs are give or take. You will make selection on premades.

I agree to an extent.

I've been in many DF parties when there's been DPS, Healing, Tanking, or other issues at time that present themselves. While DPS may have helped sometimes avoiding mechanics and being alive are better in others. Regardless it's a constant changing variable depending on fights, when it happens, and "certain amount of damage being dealt" to get through the fight or a phase. Yet having max dps isn't gonna solve every issue that presents itself because if it did Titan Ex and Twintania would not be a thing now at all and everyone would be having less and less trouble in the new coil as they got closer to an average ilvl of 100 or 110. "DPS checks" are not in anyway more important than dealing with mechanics. The overall fight progress is what is important and it doesn't ask for these extreme dps numbers.

Back when people would do the level 50 dungeons after just hitting level 50 Demon Wall in AK was a road block and despite people getting philo gear it didn't get better but those with full DL made it more tolerable. Caster LB was the "hope" to clearing the fight. Yet Bee's didn't die from the caster LB. So knockbacks and paralyze were still needed to be taken into consideration. There was various times that called for drastic measures and on average it was just me and a tank that stayed alive after bee's and instead of dpsing we dragged the last 5-10% of the fight on through my off healing (Physick) and switching back in fort between so I would take the damage of the tank. Which eventually allowed Demon Wall to die through a prolonged fight in which I a blm mage was not DPSing but was spending most of my time and the tank dealing very minimal damage and keeping our HP up enough to survive and finish it off.

In Titan HM the issue of people dying to landslide was always and issue and sometimes we had the potential to push past the heart phase before DPS started dying to bombs, weight of the land, landslide or tumult. Yet despite the lack of 1 or 2 DPS the fight could be pushed and still be killed, yet the group now has 0 margin for error. The rest of the fight needed to be picture perfect even if it meant doing 1, 2, or 3 more additional final phase rotations on Titan. For Titan Extreme you don't get that luxury unless it happens between gaolers which only offers a limited window to do so.

In Turn 1 sometimes there's just too much spike and the boss is alive with only 5% HP left which can be down. Yet on average no bard or healer wants to use their LB as someone kites as long as possible so it can be poked down.

Yet regardless of all that rant.

If people really want a "tool" for DPS and SE does ever consider caving in to their demands then it will have to be adjusted to consider "group contribution" and SE is gonna need to consider releasing the bosses HP numbers and the total groups DPS contribution numbers. Since overall it doesn't matter if everyone does Max DPS because those numbers over do it. As long as a certain threshold of "group damage" is being dealt then the "DPS checks" are met regardless of who isn't pulling their weight with "max dps".

Yet as it stands people throughout this thread only want to know who is doing the least amount of DPS so they can justify harassment level of criticism. That only serves to give rise to more and more harassment which is not needed. There has been rarely any rational argument on why it's a benefit or how it should be implemented properly so that it can be a beneficial tool for the "party" and probably should be restricted to the 1 player that being the party leader. Instead all we see is that if someone disagrees they lash out and neglect to bring up the importance of everything else that happens in a fight over "dps numbers". So over the past 15 pages anyone pro "DPS tools" has not bothered with being helpful in presenting their case of "DPS tools" and I who am against it have tried to help and instead I get met with people that constantly prove why DPS tools are there to justify harassment.

Since as far as rotations go that can be done without the need of a DPS meter by checking rotational guide videos people put up for you to watch or going to the classes n job section in the forums.

So as it stands within these past 15 pages. This entire topic has been negative and toxic with people only trying to put down those that aren't pro DPS meters. If this is how on average the attitude of the majority that wants DPS meters is then you can image how bad it will be if this was a debate with over thousands of people in it.

[Yurimi]

Yet as it stands people throughout this thread only want to know who is doing the least amount of DPS so they can justify harassment level ofcriticism. That only serves to give rise to more and more harassment which is not needed. There has been rarely any rational argument on why it's a benefit or how it should be implemented properly so that it can be a beneficial tool for the "party" and probably should be restricted to the 1 player that being the party leader. Instead all we see is that if someone disagrees they lash out and neglect to bring up the importance of everything else that happens in a fight over "dps numbers". So over the past 15 pages anyone pro "DPS tools" has not bothered with being helpful in presenting their case of "DPS tools" and I who am against it have tried to help and instead I get met with people that constantly prove why DPS tools are there to justify harassment.

I could say the same to you, in my eyes you keep saying harassment, make up facts and have yet to provide any compelling and reasonable argue,ent for your case. Parsers have been used in my FC's 2 coil groups and while I don't coil I can see the benefit of having them. One of our bards who was a higher iLv. than the 2nd bard in one group was sitting at 230 dps while the other bard was at 313, rather than just blindly saying the group sucks and can't beat a rage timer or start replacing people the source was seen, the player was taken to the striking dummies by the raid leader and they looked at was going on. With some work they now do 300ish. It's not a tool to harass its a tool to assess and adjust. The other raid group you would think that the blm is the problem due to the class and movement heavy mechanics but with a parser it was shown that the problem was not the blm and the group adjusted without replacing a member based on assumption. Will some use it to harass maybe will a majority use it for benefit most likely. In these 2 cases it would have been more harassing to not have a parser.

[Atreides]

One of our bards who was a higher iLv. than the 2nd bard in one group was sitting at 230 dps while the other bard was at 313, rather than just blindly saying the group sucks and can't beat a rage timer or start replacing people the source was seen, the player was taken to the striking dummies by the raid leader and they looked at was going on. With some work they now do 300ish. It's not a tool to harass its a tool to assess and adjust.

That!
Why do many people fail to understand that parsers do more good than bad?
If people want to disciminate others they do so, they don't need a parser for that...
If you see someone doing like half your damage a good player is less likely to insult him, but more likely to give him advice how to get better, the other person won't see the numbers and would think the nice guy that is providing help here is just being a dick.