Why is BLM getting a buff?

[NyneAlexander]

There seems to be a very distinct gap in this thread: Those that primarily play black mage and participate in cutting edge end game content, and those that do not.


Lets be clear: you are NOT going to notice the discrepancies on single target dps of blms if you do not participate in 2nd coil. The other content in the game is either already nerfed or doesn't require the dps checks that 2nd coil does.

Yes, damage during movement is an issue, but it IS NOT as much of an issue as some people make it out to be. As has been stated over and over again in this thread, and others, a good, well prepared black mage can get mostly get around these movement issues. Yes, we have to know the encounter inside and out to properly and efficiently cast around boss mechanics. Yes, our learning curve is much less forgiving compared to other dps jobs. No, it isn't fair, but who cares.

The actual problem is this: once you make everything perfect, cut out movement and apply the perfect conditions for a dps rotation, OUR NUMBERS ARE STILL AT THE BOTTOM. Over a 6 minute span, a perfect blm is not holding a candle to any other dps job, played perfectly. SMN, MNK and DRG are without question superior dps. And even if we go toe to toe with a perfect bard, as soon as his cooldowns reset, he's pulling ahead, where as blm is staying right where it was.

Not to mention that BRD (songs) and SMN (raise) have exceptional utility over BLM. Hell, even DRG can boost the damage of another class.

[Sakasa]

Well DRG and MNK could always increase the damage of other DRGs or MNK but that didn't change the fact that they needed assistance from the devs to raise to acceptable standards which is fair because having a class being too weak is much easier to be accept by players then a class being too strong and being adjusted which they feel is a personal attack against them.

So if we take the utility argument off the table and just look at the dps wouldn't a buff to thunder proc as well as duration (effect duration to allow thundercloud) edge you closer with out throwing you off a cliff which would happen in the event they brought back lets say stacking thunders or even adjustments to your actual damage out per cast. A straight damage out increase would force content to keep blms constantly on the move to drop there dps to fair-ish standards which is no different then in FFXI where balances had to be made around shadows. So I think the solution comes from specifically from adjustments to thundercloud, umbral, and astral so the overall job won't change (at 50 at least any adjustment to them will change leveling strength) and still require the movements.

So for instance umbral increasing the 5% thundercloud rate and astral increasing the overall damage of thunder ticks and increasing thundercloud by proxy. This is just an off the top of my head but bloodletter refresh effect is a powerful tool for brd if thundercloud could be as reliable it would give blm that fighting chance with a bursty damage boost as well as a solution that already isn't hindered by mobility. While it would change up the standard rotation a bit needing to account for thunder cast in ice and a proc in fire but this was just a idea with out overall statistical logs of damage done by thundercloud so assess the possibility for how feasible it is.

[Jican]

I wonder how many people posting in here have both the cross class skills the Blm can get, and has used the job enough to base their "experience" on wisdom, not "what they saw in a few fights."

The biggest issue I have as a full time Blm with all cross class skills available to Blm in it's entirety is the cone based area that Blm has to attack. If the monster moves outside of that for any reason, you lose all the casting time you spent. If the monster dies before you're done casting, all that casting time is wasted. If you MOVE, all that casting time is wasted. THAT imho is what needs to change. Everything else is just fine. I have yet to see anyone stick some numbers into their so called "lower dps" because many of you are overlooking one VERY important thing.

Critical damage

Smn does not have and never will have Crit for their DoTs, and their only move worth a damn is Fester. Sure, Garuda is ranged, has a 90 potency move every few seconds, and has that sexy move that extends DoTs by another 15 seconds, but that's it, really, that's IT.

[Raestloz]

snip.

When their pets do crit, SM has insanely improved Spell Speed. I think the thing also reduces cooldown, but I forgot.

But anyway, the "IT" that you say "just that" is actually kinda important. Crit won't proc if you never have the chance to cast in the first place

[Gardes]

I wonder how many people posting in here have both the cross class skills the Blm can get, and has used the job enough to base their "experience" on wisdom, not "what they saw in a few fights."

But have you played SMN?

[scarebearz]

I wonder how many people posting in here have both the cross class skills the Blm can get, and has used the job enough to base their "experience" on wisdom, not "what they saw in a few fights."

The biggest issue I have as a full time Blm with all cross class skills available to Blm in it's entirety is the cone based area that Blm has to attack. If the monster moves outside of that for any reason, you lose all the casting time you spent. If the monster dies before you're done casting, all that casting time is wasted. If you MOVE, all that casting time is wasted. THAT imho is what needs to change. Everything else is just fine.

You start of by saying in effect, that most here posting have no idea about BLM.

You then say that casting LoS is the main reason BLM do less DPS (It's not).

If you were as experienced as you claim, surely you have a /facetarget macro on your BLM to counter the LoS issue? :P (any half decent BLM will have minimal issues with LoS casting)

In a totally stationary fight with no moving at all, BLM does he lowest damage, when equally geared and skilled, raw damage is the issue. Yet it does not need a massive buff, just a small buff to raw DPS would help a lot.

[ErnestoGiovanni]

Then I sincerely hope they nerf Holy....a LOT.

It has been nerfed, -50(40 or 30 or something) potency. Right now to use it in certain dungeons takes some serious gear or skill power on Tank and Healer parts so if you can use Holy you've earned it also WHM's have I think capped at 380 accuracy now? I doubt future raids will allow them to Holy spam efficiently for the MP.

When I BLM or BRD for Speed runs, I see WHM's Holy and tanks drop with a resonating "thud," it's not for everyone.

But I see the route people are going, and they say balance, if BLM= AOE> single target well how do we balance it? Nerf their AOE capabilities and increase single target abilities, its the most obvious solution.

[scarebearz]

It has been nerfed, -50(40 or 30 or something) potency. Right now to use it in certain dungeons takes some serious gear or skill power on Tank and Healer parts so if you can use Holy you've earned it also WHM's have I think capped at 380 accuracy now? I doubt future raids will allow them to Holy spam efficiently for the MP.

When I BLM or BRD for Speed runs, I see WHM's Holy and tanks drop with a resonating "thud," it's not for everyone.

But I see the route people are going, and they say balance, if BLM= AOE> single target well how do we balance it? Nerf their AOE capabilities and increase single target abilities, its the most obvious solution.

If you took along a decent 2nd WHM just to AoE for a speed run, they would do more damage than most BLM's and geting close to the damage of a decent BLM even.

So yes, if Flare is nerfed, Holy should be too.

[ErnestoGiovanni]

If you took along a decent 2nd WHM just to AoE for a speed run, they would do more damage than most BLM's and geting close to the damage of a decent BLM even.

So yes, if Flare is nerfed, Holy should be too.

Hmm, if this is the case I find something wrong with "most" BLM's. I don't really believe it, but someone give me numbers proving me wrong, and I won't deny it. If Holy is so powerful, I don't understand why Pt's aren't just 1 tank 3 whm's. My opinion is based on my exp with Speed run parties, BLM's Fire 3 fire 2 until 1st flare blows away the dmg I can do with a full mp bar worth of holy. Let alone the triple flares. I just don't see it, However I was stating the obvious in my first post because everyone harps on their AOE DMG, and SE is saying balance balance balance... all that everyone is basically arguing for is a nerf to the BLM AOE dmg and a buff to single target.

However we won't know until its revealed :/

[Alukah]

There seems to be a very distinct gap in this thread: Those that primarily play black mage and participate in cutting edge end game content, and those that do not.


Lets be clear: you are NOT going to notice the discrepancies on single target dps of blms if you do not participate in 2nd coil. The other content in the game is either already nerfed or doesn't require the dps checks that 2nd coil does.

Yes, damage during movement is an issue, but it IS NOT as much of an issue as some people make it out to be. As has been stated over and over again in this thread, and others, a good, well prepared black mage can get mostly get around these movement issues. Yes, we have to know the encounter inside and out to properly and efficiently cast around boss mechanics. Yes, our learning curve is much less forgiving compared to other dps jobs. No, it isn't fair, but who cares.

The actual problem is this: once you make everything perfect, cut out movement and apply the perfect conditions for a dps rotation, OUR NUMBERS ARE STILL AT THE BOTTOM. Over a 6 minute span, a perfect blm is not holding a candle to any other dps job, played perfectly. SMN, MNK and DRG are without question superior dps. And even if we go toe to toe with a perfect bard, as soon as his cooldowns reset, he's pulling ahead, where as blm is staying right where it was.

Not to mention that BRD (songs) and SMN (raise) have exceptional utility over BLM. Hell, even DRG can boost the damage of another class.

Yeah there is a gap, the thing is this change will affect negatively one of them, while not implementing this change will affect negatively the other part.

A nerf to flare is a nerf for pretty much every content outside coil, where BLM shines with flare spam, but keeping thins as they are now will affect raiders who don't get enough numbers while working with their max potential.

Talking in numbers, I dare to say that more people would be affected by the AoE nerf than raiders, as there are more people who have yet to or decided not to do second coil, but keeping things as they are would have a bigger negative impact to raiders than a slight nerf to AoEs (which would barely increase the completion time of dungeons).

Soo one side will have to lose something here and seeing how SE has those changes ready, dungeon runners will be the ones losing here.