Leviathan FC Progression Thread V4

[doa165]

IDK why there is an issue. Doesn't this forum topic have the name of FC Progression? We should have a Linkshell Progression thread! Everyone wins!

Version 1 of the progression thread was the only one that was specifically labeled as an "FC progression thread" versions 2 and 3 were not. Now suddenly it becomes an FC only thread again when FC's are losing their standing to Link shell groups.

[Ashenami]

also yes, linkshells were able to progress faster than FCs considering that they didn't follow the rules of the progression thread. A lot of FC's vastly limited their raid hours so that they could have full FC groups instead of pugging people because they wouldn't get official credit with pugs - linkshells could do whatever they wanted because they weren't supposed to be able to get thread credit anyways. Your group cleared T8 with a pug outside of your static even, which went against two of the rules of the thread, but Sevyn didn't verify before adding you. A kill is a kill, grats, but the point of the thread is for friendly, structured, competition between FCs.

You do realize that AU's progression group with Zachy's raid leading swapped among 13 different members from 6-9? And they still bring in random people for T9 progression in their group 2?

[Berengaria]

They were all members from within the FC so they receive credit. Group 2,3,4,etc don't receive official credit so they can do whatever they want at that point - hence why they are doing just that. A 2nd FC group is allowed to pug because they don't get credit, which is the same allowance that Linkshells follow.

Pugs and linkshells are dedicated to each other only to the point that they will raid together, but as soon as joining an FC comes into play they aren't committed enough. If people don't want to leave their FC for official progression then no one is going to force them, but then they won't get official credit - simple as that. You can have credit for your kill on the World Progression Thread so your recognition isn't ignored, but when it comes to a Levi FC Progression Thread, then Linkshells don't follow the rules.

You follow the same rules as everyone else, or you don't get to be a part of their structured competition.

[Woona]

つ ◕_◕ ༽つCHANGE RULES OR RIOT༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

つ ◕_◕ ༽つDON'T LET THE MAN KEEP YOU DOWN༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[Logistical]

つ ◕_◕ ༽つCHANGE RULES OR RIOT༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

つ ◕_◕ ༽つDON'T LET THE MAN KEEP YOU DOWN༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[doa165]

つ ◕_◕ ༽つCHANGE RULES OR RIOT༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

つ ◕_◕ ༽つDON'T LET THE MAN KEEP YOU DOWN༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[Akesis]

You do realize that AU's progression group with Zachy's raid leading swapped among 13 different members from 6-9? And they still bring in random people for T9 progression in their group 2?

ash, we have friendly conversations and have known each other in-game for awhile now... but, please only speak to things to which you know to be fact rather then spreading 1/2 truths on the forums just to try to make your case look better.

of the 13 members you refer to. only 1 of them was recruited post patch and is still in the FC. the rest were internal and here long before progression started. 3 of the players in question no longer play the game. 1 is on a different server. the 1 that was recruited has been on our ts off and on since T5 and wasn't in the FC due to raid time conflicts that recently cleared itself up as you should know.

we don't have to explain ourselves on the forums. but, as you of all people know, we don't run static groups. everyone's spot is always up for grabs in each group. BG ran like 4 groups to gear out the 8 people ended up killing T9 world first. does it really matter how many different people we had in for those kills? The most important fact about any member in any group along for any kill is that they are "in the free company". never once has a guild or server first been done with someone in the group outside of the FC.

the "second group" if you can call them that: they have seen almost the entire group retire from the game. or in your case, removed. even still, do you see them posting all over the forums about downing content with members outside of the fc? no, you don't. which is exactly what your FC is doing with the protection of calling yourselves a [LS] because your company doesn't have enough solid people to do it on its own (be it times, RL, whatever the "insert excuse here" you want). as you yourself said in-game "the FC is made up of a group of friends, we didn't/don't have enough for content so we have the LS"

1. There's plenty of footage of AU bringing in "pugs" for T9, and advertising their streams as "AU Progression".

Please link our progression group ever bringing in a pug. if it is any other group, it doesn't matter. the FC as a whole has already finished progression.


as far as this thread goes.... the only people saying that LS's should be counted into progression are the members of the 2 groups who cleared T9 as a group of friends outside of their FC's. it is not up to you, me or them to decide how the person who is running this thread chooses to do so. if/when the time comes that Drex decides to open up this thread to include LS progression, you will find me in the PT finder setting up a group to become a LS.... feel free to stay in your FC's and join me. we will get top 5-10 server ranking depending on how many other LS's get set up.

I speak for myself and not my FC... my beliefs are just that, mine.... and this is directed at no person in particular rather this conversation as a whole... if the other servers are so much better and the way they do things is so much better. you are free to transfer to one of them.
grats to everyone on your kills. there is no need for all of this drama on the forums and in-game.... if you don't like the way this thread is being ran. feel free to start your own.

I am done here

[Ashenami]

I didn't say there was anythign wrong with the way AU ran things or that you swapped people in and out, but the fact that you have had 13 different people in your main progression group is true-- and I was simply using it as a point to disprove Beren. It is not a half-truth, it IS the truth. There's nothing wrong with it.


I'm not saying there's anything wrong with bringing in pugs to your "progression groups" or swapping members in and out of the FC. Nothing at all! But that's exactly my point.
Also, please remember I willingly left and was asked to be moved from that second group. I was not "removed" from it.


---


As far as saying LS's dont belong or aren't legitimate... if you have a whole page explaining why your main group swapped 13 people in and out, or why your second group "basically quit" or why X is in or X is out.... sounds like you don't run a very tight ship. But that is still considered better than our 8-man Static.

[loreleidiangelo]

Hello everyone, Lorelei of Glitch here! I'm on my mobile at work, so my reply will brief, but I'll be more than happy to clarify any of my points later today when I am at home with actual computer access. ^^ Please note that the viewpoint expressed here is done so both as an officer of Glitch, as well as with the authority and blessing of our FC head, Uraeus Hexatonious (who would weigh in personally on the matter, but is planning an upcoming wedding due for next week, and is thus a bit scarce on time). Hex will post in this thread if you'd all like "official" confirmation, but I think that in this case me acting as his mouthpiece should suffice.

Glitch, as anyone who was checking the previous progression thread will note, is server 7th in ranking if Linkshell T9 kills are credited, but server 5th if they are not. Since Zachy wanted the viewpoints of "other top FCs on the server who stand to lose ranking if Linkshell kills are counted" (we weren't asked until now, by the way: hi!), here is ours: Glitch is in favor of Linkshell kills being credited towards official progression. Hexatonious, as well as myself, believe that any group with the tenacity to down T9 in its state of infancy is entitled to the recognition that comes from that. We do not believe that Linkshell kills being credited hurt FCs in any meaningful way, except perhaps the blow to certain people's egos. (Linkshells rarely seem to actively recruit, and to suggest that possible raiders would join a Linkshell first over an FC is a little ludicrous, IMHO.)

I understand Drexxin's concern, and I do think very clear and established rules need to be set in order to address those concerns. I like Eclips Astral's suggestion of lowering the "required FC members" count to a simple 5/8 (possibly 6/8 for those who think 5 is toeing some sort of imaginary line), and requiring that LS kills adhere to the same principle, but in reverse. Under this suggestion, the 7 Miqo'te and 1 Minority group would be counted as a "Grade" clear (sorry to those in Nos, but I think it's fair), and the Ark group would be counted as the "Haven [LS]" group (since at the time of posting only 5/8 of them are actually in Ark). This prevents the "2/3/4 FC raid groups will just make LSes to get their names on the list" scenario that Berengaria was fretting over, but will also allow those with unconventional raid times who have formed statics outside of their FC to get the credit that they deserve, on a thread designed specifically for that: credit.

That's the official stance of Glitch, who stands to lose ranking if Linkshell clears remain but is happy to give them the recognition they deserve nonetheless. Bear in mind that we have no affiliation with any of the players in the two Linkshells/two FCs in question; this is our opinion as a fully neutral third party. I will reach out to the other FCs to which I am connected and attempt to get them to air their viewpoints too, even if they do not coincide with our own. This needs to be a server-wide decision, not a long-winded wankfest between the four groups that have the biggest dogs in this race.

To close, Glitch would like to offer their congratulations to the four groups who have cleared so far. We hope to join you ALL at the top of the list soon!

[DreXxiN]

Thanks for chiming in, everybody. I tried to get ahold of quite a few LS/FC representatives over the last couple days but was unlucky in doing so. Also, I got restricted for 24 hours for "posting too much" I guess so I wasn't able to reply. For now, I'm very busy, so I won't be making any decisions just yet. I'd like to meet somewhere in the middle ideally, but as I said before, competitive integrity is #1 priority in any decision I decide to make. You'll probably hear a decision from me in the near future unless the other progression thread takes off.

I look forward to seeing more points for both sides, but if possible, to maintain server rep, let's please be civil in here and not fling dung back and forth at each other, especially when we're all friendly confronting each other in game. Solid points all around, but I'm going to see how things play out. I just want to remind anyone that when I originally discluded Linkshells, it was of no malicious intent and I was only thinking of what would be best. I've talked to a few Linkshell leaders in a friendly matter that have brought up solid points .

Cheers.