SMN in T8

[Teeratong]

are you use garuda or ifrit ?
what is better way?

[DistraughtKoala]

Garuda. /10chars

[IzumiRaito]

Raging strikes and/or int pot + contagion beats anything ifrit can do. Always.

[Altimis]

I use Ifrit

[DistraughtKoala]

Why do you use ifrit? Legitimately asking.

[Zamii]

i use ifrit also, assuming you have a monk in party, its roughly 10 dps overall increase in my experience, does take a little more effect to make sure ifrit doesn't die though.

[Altimis]

Because Turn 8 is Single boss fight + Dreadnough pop 4 - 5 times (which is die so fast like fly) and Boss standing still, no warp, no fancy move, its basically Strike Dummy so Ifrit gonna do more DPS than Garuda. But others Boss and Turn that have alot mobs to kill or Boss move alot (Primal Ex is example) I use Garuda mainly though because Ifrit can't catch Garuda in term of distance.

Contagion is strong tool but the most efficient is when you see alot target more than 3 target and use Bane to spread DOTs on it, otherwise, I use Ifrit. Garuda's Contagion does not have any edge over Ifrit at all when you know what to do and I explains why Ifrit now. Peoples think Ifrit is weak and low dmg but I say its not true.

For those still curious why Ifrit, I suggest you go try Dummy test and you will understand why (I assume all of you guys know how to check your own performance)

[xxalucard]

Because Turn 8 is Single boss fight + Dreadnough pop 4 - 5 times (which is die so fast like fly) and Boss standing still, no warp, no fancy move, its basically Strike Dummy so Ifrit gonna do more DPS than Garuda. But others Boss and Turn that have alot mobs to kill or Boss move alot (Primal Ex is example) I use Garuda mainly though because Ifrit can't catch Garuda in term of distance.


Contagion is strong tool but the most efficient is when you see alot target more than 3 target and use Bane to spread DOTs on it, otherwise, I use Ifrit. Garuda's Contagion does not have any edge over Ifrit at all when you know what to do and I explains why Ifrit now. Peoples think Ifrit is weak and low dmg but I say its not true.

For those still curious why Ifrit, I suggest you go try Dummy test and you will understand why (I assume all of you guys know how to check your own performance)

Unfortunately your information is incorrect, especially about contagion *not* being more effective than Ifrit.

Contagion is more effective, period, especially when you factor in miasma II + poison pots + raging strikes + int pots and overall MP management required on the fight.

The fight becomes a difficult one to manage MP with as a summoner-- even when you use contagion optimally-- unless you simply are not casting certain spells such as shadow flare, miasma II (you'd have no reason to cast miasma II without contagion, but it IS more dps than ruin with contagion), and ruin II enough to auto-attack more and while running for mechanics (nodes, mines, allagan field placement, etc).

Also your information about "ifrit being more dps on a striking dummy" is misleading, because usually you don't have a bard casting Foe's Requiem when you run tests on a dummy. In turn 8 I would assume most groups have at least 1 bard using a battle voiced Foe's twice in the fight, and that increases garuda's damage as well (ifrit does not benefit from foe's requiem as his attacks are melee).

Since both you and garuda benefit from foe's, the pet becomes that much more effective, not to mention being able to contagion quite a few times throughout the fight and thus increasing your own dps more than whatever it could be with ifrit.

TLDR; Ifrit sucks.

[Altimis]

oh great, I edit my message and somehow I lose my long texts lol

OK I will say it simple and to the point (Lazy to rewrite again lol)

Believe what you believe, I will not bother argue on it, you will think Garuda is better than Ifrit but I find out Ifrit doing better on T8 than Garuda. As well as Strike Dummy intensive DPS test

I want to ask you too, did you even care to test it seriously? test it on T8 and Strike Dummy and others things? or no? you will still say "No its bullcrap, Ifrit is suck suck suck x 10" if that so, I will just simple turn away because its no point to argue, I don't feel like to speak about Pa**** result in official forum or in game, its against here

I am not noob, I didn't just playing SMN until now, I been play it for half year and mastered it and I know what I doing, Garuda is easier than Ifrit but just so you know, Ifrit have potential to do more dmg than Garuda when its use by the hands of specialist

For generally, Garuda do perfect, nothing flaw about Garuda, no misleading

[xxalucard]

Believe what you believe, I will not bother argue on it, you will think Garuda is better than Ifrit but I find out Ifrit doing better on T8 than Garuda. As well as Strike Dummy intensive DPS test

I want to ask you too, did you even care to test it seriously? test it on T8 and Strike Dummy and others things? or no? you will still say "No its bullcrap, Ifrit is suck suck suck x 10" if that so, I will just simple turn away because its no point to argue, I don't feel like to speak about Pa**** result in official forum or in game, its against here

I am not noob, I didn't just playing SMN until now, I been play it for half year and mastered it and I know what I doing, Garuda is easier than Ifrit but just so you know, Ifrit have potential to do more dmg than Garuda when its use by the hands of specialist

For generally, Garuda do perfect, nothing flaw about Garuda, no misleading

I didn't mean to come off like I was insulting your skill as a SMN.

You might be right that ifrit is doing slightly more dps than garuda on a striking dummy, but my point is that you're overlooking how much more dps YOU do yourself by having contagion and thus some extra mp throughout the fight. Having to constantly re-apply your dots earlier affects the entire rotation and costs more MP in the long run (to do less damage-- because you're doing less ruin / ruin II when you have to re-apply the dots).

And I do test these things. Just walked up to a striking dummy again and re-tested it, just for this discussion:

Garuda's wind blade -246 - 269
Garuda's crit wind blade-369 - 404

Ifrit's average AA- 89-96 +
Ifrit's average Burning Strike- 169-182 = ~ 268

Ifrit crit Burning Strike - 271 +
Ifrit AA - 92 = ~363

Ifrit Crit AA - 139 +
Ifrit Burning Strike - 177 = 316

*extremely rare*
Ifrit aa crit- 137+
Ifrit Burning Strike Crit- 262 = 393

From the numbers you can see that the range is pretty close, with Ifrit only slightly on top with the average hits. As crits come into play, however, Garuda tends to do more damage on average because half of Ifrit's crits proc on the AA which is not as much of a gain as it is when it procs on burning strike and very rarely (like 1 out of 20 hits) did it proc on both. Even then, when both hits procced a crit, it depended on their damage-window range if they beat out Garuda's single Wind Blade crit.

Just from manually recording numbers it appeared to me that as both pets crit more, their overall damage came closer and closer (with Garuda usually gaining every time wind blade crit). It was to the point that the difference was difficult to tell even on a stationary striking dummy-- Ifrit's ideal situation.

Now if you factor in that summoners usually try to have a higher crit rate in gear (for the pet trait + overall value) and estimate that both pets are critting more, Garuda will beat out Ifrit even on a striking dummy because not only will his crits have more value on average, but he benefits from the spell speed buff it procs and at some point will earn more attacks out of it.

Then if you factor in Foe's Requiem + Battle voice combo'd with Rouse + spur + enkindle (Garuda's enkindle has a bigger initial potency than Ifrit's), crits become even more valuable because Garuda will be at a plateau that ifrit can't reach even with a monk's dragon kick.

And all this hasn't even factored the main argument for Garuda-- contagion-- raising our own dps higher than it ever could be with Ifrit. Re-applying dots earlier makes it physically impossible to do more dps than another summoner who doesn't have to re-apply them as quickly. You cannot do as much Ruin / Ruin II spam as a summoner using Garuda, and you also lose the extra 5 tics of bonus Raging Strikes + Int Pot potency that the other summoner gets. You miss out on bonus Miasma II damage every 40 seconds and also any bonus damage from Poison Potions that get extended through contagion as well. It also alters the rotation to the point that you will either lose some of the main DoT up-time (Bio II miasma Bio) or Shadowflare up-time due to having to re-apply them so often.

This is why I say Ifrit sucks.