Time limit to re-enter dungeons

[Amineri]

It's been interesting catching up with this thread. So many posts in such a short period of time! Clearly people feel pretty passionately about this topic .

This is a looong post, and I'm sorry for that. But this isn't a simple subject (as much as people may like one-liners and zingers ).

I don't really see what's the big deal. it's not making the dungeons shorter or anything. If it take 20 runs at 1 hour each to get the items you want, you'll spend 20hours in the dungeons. Be it in 1 day or 1 month, it'll still be 20 hours. The hours in dungeons and doing something else is still the same.

It's as if I was comparing 2 games that were about 40 hours long, first one finished in 2 week during the summer when i have more free time and the second one finish in 2 month during school. I won't be thinking that the first one was way too short, only 1 week worth of playtime while the second one was a way better purchase, 2 months of playtime. In the end they both took about the same time.

I believe this is a valid point. The actual details of the raid dungeons, their difficulty, multi-pathing, etc, will determine the re-playability of these dungeons. Thus, a given dungeon has a certain life-span in terms of number of repeats. This number will vary from player to player : some may feel 'done' after a few visits, and some will feel 'done' after more.
~~> The actual length of content is determined by the dungeon content, not by a lockout timer.

Let's take a player that will be 'finished' after 20 runs through the dungeon, and each run is an hour, so, that's 20 hours worth of content. Timer or no timer, there is 20 hours worth of playable content for that player.

Now, if a 24 hour timer is added, the "pro-timer" crowd is correct (in one sense). The content is stretched out to last 20 days (at least). But in another sense that is NOT right, because adding a timer does not create 20 days' worth of content -- there is still 20 hours worth of content, but now the player must experience 1 hour of content interspersed with 23 hours of some other content. If there is no other content, the player will log off, and only log on every 24 hours, experience the 1 hour of content, and then log off.

If there is other content (like say, settlement quest hubs), then the player can go experience some other content while waiting for the timer to cool down. However, the dungeon timer doesn't create this new content -- all it does is force the player to go do something else other than play through the dungeon.

When anti-timer people tell the pro-timer people "if you want a timer, just don't go in the dungeon", I take it as the following: if there were a timer on the dungeon, what would these pro-timer people be doing while the timer is cooling down? If there is other content to go do, then that content could still be done. It isn't necessary to repeat a dungeon over and over until you burn out on it. Buuut, if you want to, go ahead! Then you can go play the other content.

On the other hand, if there ISN'T other content to play beside the dungeon, then how would a timer make the game more enjoyable? There would be this dungeon content, but you as a player are locked out of it.
~~> A timer doesn't create content, it just forces the dungeon to be interspersed with other content.

One of the other issues with having a timer is that it encourages people to try and conform their RL schedules around playing the game. As Yoshi-P put it:

Also, on a related note, we’ll be changing the way guildleves work in 1.19 to do away with the feeling that you’re somehow being penalized for not filling the daily quota of levequests.

I've seen quotes from people in the military, who might be on duty for 2 months, and then have 2 solid weeks to pour into the game -- timers do not suit that type of schedule. People have a wide variety of lifestyles, for one reason or another. Do we as a community REALLY want to exclude / punish people that can't organize their life / schedule around playing FFXIV?
~~> A timer punishes those players who can't conform their RL schedules to the FFXIV timer schedule.

Now for the flip side
There are positive things to be said about timers. People who run theme parks deliberately pace access to rides for a variety of reasons. One, it paces people, and is more cost-effective. But on a more positive note, waiting can actually enhance the experience, by creating a sense of anticipation.

Most roller coaster rides (that I've seen) pace the lines to be around a half hour to an hour. They usually have energetic music playing, and you can see the coaster and hear the people screaming. It helps set the mood for the people that are going to experience it. Something along these lines could help extend the pacing, create excitement, and enhance satisfaction. Actually implementing it like this ... pretty damned hard.
~~> Waiting to access content can increase anticipation, so a timer could add value.

Sorry for the long post!
TL/dr -- I tried to summarize with the bold bullets

[Naylia]

Now for the flip side
There are positive things to be said about timers. People who run theme parks deliberately pace access to rides for a variety of reasons. One, it paces people, and is more cost-effective. But on a more positive note, waiting can actually enhance the experience, by creating a sense of anticipation.

Most roller coaster rides (that I've seen) pace the lines to be around a half hour to an hour. They usually have energetic music playing, and you can see the coaster and hear the people screaming. It helps set the mood for the people that are going to experience it. Something along these lines could help extend the pacing, create excitement, and enhance satisfaction. Actually implementing it like this ... pretty damned hard.
~~> Waiting to access content can increase anticipation, so a timer could add value.

The best day I ever had at Disney World, was when my wife and I were there with a couple buddies halfway between Thanksgiving and Christmas. There were no lines, no waits. They literally ran rides when we boarded the front car. That was hands down, the best day I have ever spent in an amusement park. If we wanted to go again, we went again. If we wanted to do something differnt, we ran over there and did something else fun.

Lesson: this game just needs enough fun content, that everybody is standing around when they log in going...OMG...there's so many cool things to do. What should we do first?!?! Then do that and do more and more and more, all different, fun and exciting.

[Amineri]

The best day I ever had at Disney World, was when my wife and I were there with a couple buddies halfway between Thanksgiving and Christmas. There were no lines, no waits. They literally ran rides when we boarded the front car. That was hands down, the best day I have ever spent in an amusement park.

I actually had a similar experience. I went to Six Flags: Magic Mountain on just the right day, no people, and lots of rides open / cars running. I went on a roller coaster a dozen times in an hour, and it was fantastic. I think in part, though, it was so great because when I went I was expecting the long lines, and so it was a nice surprise to just be able to GO.

That said, a lot of the actual implementations of lines/queues ARE just annoying. It's hot, the sun is beating down on you, and some kid is screaming while you are stuck in line for 3 hours. THAT is the type of timer I'd just as soon avoid.

I guess I'm thinking something more like a somewhat long elevator ride down into the dungeon. Creepy music and sound effects play. Maybe you can hear the sounds of a previous party battling, or even see them. Something like the opening to the original Half-life comes to mind.

[Naylia]

I guess I'm thinking something more like a somewhat long elevator ride down into the dungeon. Creepy music and sound effects play. Maybe you can hear the sounds of a previous party battling, or even see them. Something like the opening to the original Half-life comes to mind.

This is fine...it in itself is part of the content. Much like the Haunted Tower ride or whatever has the extended walk through the haunted house first. But that is not the same as..."Sorry, this ride is closed until next week. Please come back then."