Delete auto-learn of skills

[Liham]

I play RPG because i love to evolve and learn and become more and more powerfull and learn bigger et beautifuller magics and ws ....

Seeking out a scroll of a skill and uses it on me, always feels great in that evolution.

But i think you (SE) made a bad choice to put most of the skills in auto learning because we lose that impression of evolution and also you delete interesting content that is obtaining the skills.

I mean there are some skills i have learned without even noticed

The guild point system for acquiring skill is really great but all the others skills should be learn with a scroll.

It will have people 'force' to farm and CRAFT to make enought money to buy scrolls or players will have to farm drop monsters or ah or even better quests their scrolls.

Its a big change but i really think it is a vital one since player will sense better their evolution and it will add a lots of intresting contents.

What do you think ?

Edit :
The people that don't agree with that statement think that i wanted the same system as FF XI BUT THAT IS WRONG.
First of all, i m not a big part of 'lets make FFXIV a FFXI-2' and i was taking it only as an exemple but you can take any mmorpg on the market if you want.
I quit BLM in FFXI partly because of the scrolls {impossible to gauge} {fishing}.

The solution could be for exemple that the skills are :
- Buyable in shop (with some originality like the bard in FF XI (yes a FF XI ref :$))
- Exchangeable with guild rank points (great system already in place but that should absolutely take all the skills)
- Questable (soloable)
- Auto learn (still a few can stay)
- Droppable (with 20% drop and certainly not 1% like FF XI)
- Craftable (????)
- Learned from monsters
- Exchangeable with company guild points
......

So are they still people against ? And Why ?

[Stupifyed]

I agree with this.

[Gennosuke]

I also agree with this too.
In FFXI, there was a bigger sense of accomplishment an distinction between players due to the effort put in by the player to acquire the scroll. It just felt good to learn a spell or ability after having gone through a quest or farmed for it. Just much more rewarding. Having them spoon fed into our ability list really makes the game dull in that aspect.

[Lexxuk]

Dunno, you end up with a monopoly (Taisai + Refresh = legendary). Look at FFXI and the scroll of Quake for instance, on Shiva it's around 500k but drops from one of two NM's who pop every 16 minutes, is the scroll worth 500k? Not really, it's worth about 25k tops but you end up with an over-inflated price on scrolls or scrolls which are worthless in price.

Then you get scrolls which are basically needed for a job to function properly, Quake you can do without (unless you want to proc yellow) but if you're NIN you can't go without Utsusemi: Ni which is around 1m gil. With that in mind you put off players who want to level NIN but can't afford the 1m for the scroll or players who level up NIN and skip one of their defining scrolls.

If I were to add up the total value of all my scrolls I have on my FFXI char (90 RDM/BLM/NIN 80 SCH) it would come to.... wheres my spreadsheet........ oh, not installed, err, over 9000 gil? Millions! It's why you see BLM's who ES + Sleepga and not ES + Sleepga II because they a) can't do the quest or b) don't have 1m gil.

Even on my RDM I don't have a complete set of spells and I never will do yet I've dropped millions on tools for utsusemi.

Obtaining a scroll isn't an achievement, it would make some jobs harder to play for people with limited funds, whilst rich chars won't notice a difference and just drop the gil, heck, unlocking the WS trials is a bigger achievement and people are skipping that, magian trials are an achievement, unlocking the latent on WS weapons, tangible things you have to put an effort in to to get the maximum potential out of an object, having to farm for 5 hours to get a scroll of cure 2 is just a hindrance to gameplay.

[Janglo]

No thank you, keep auto learn please.

[Liham]

@Lexxuk : lol i don't know if you were sad or happy to reach out for thoses scrolls in FF 11 in the end :P
Balancing is hard but it is not impossible: all the scrolls could be low\middle price on the npc buyers for exemple.

@Janglo : {Argumentation} {Can i have it please ?}

[MattyWS]

No offense but you don't have an argument by saying "the scroll is easy to get off mobs but costs too much on the AH so I want to auto-learn the skill instead!" If it's so easy to get, get it yourself rather than paying that 500k off the AH.

Anyways back on track, Auto-learning abilities sucks balls. In FFXI getting all the tele-scrolls and getting Utsusemi-Ichi, getting Asuran Fists.. I felt so proud getting these, because I worked for it. I woulda just quit FFXI long ago if I just auto-learned these skills just from getting to the right level. It's just not as special/

[Lexxuk]

No offense but you don't have an argument by saying "the scroll is easy to get off mobs but costs too much on the AH so I want to auto-learn the skill instead!" If it's so easy to get, get it yourself rather than paying that 500k off the AH.

Lets start with Flare/Fire IV, least I think it was that one. To get that scroll you have to travel to Xarc then all the way to the bottom of Castle Z where you have to fight a level 71~73 monster (for a level 50 scroll don't forget) for a 0.8% chance of Flare dropping (I got lucky, 1/1 when I went to farm it) which is impossible for a level 50 mage to actually do solo.

Lets go with.... Water next, Flood. It only drops from 1 normal (non NM) mob, much better odds though up to 2.5% so you only need to kill 50 of them before your spell will drop.

Burst? I got bored after an hour or so of killing pots in Sky and only getting thunder 3 which I already had.

Utsusemi: Ni? If the drop rate was high then the price would be low, correct? Supply would out-strip demand therefore the price would have to reduce to sell otherwise none would sell at a high price.

Tele scrolls? Easy, you quest for them so there is a 100% guaranteed method of obtaining them, same as Utstusemi: Ichi, there is no sense of achievement in that, it's a "run from point A to point B and do stuff" thing.

Asuran Fists? That's it? That's all you have (sword, katana, great katana, dagger for me so far)? And that's the simple easy as pie 300 pointer, try unlocking the weapons from KSNM's that require 500 points..... twice. It's a much bigger achievement than getting a scroll but only in the fact it takes such a long time to do it.

Simple fact is, if you make skills scrollable you're going to end up with low level scrolls that are out of the price range of lower level players, Phalanx, lvl 33 RDM costs 340k, RDM is a basic job (not a job you need to unlock) so would easily be a new players first job up to that level, did you have 340k by the time you were level 33? Scroll of Invisible, 50k, level 25, the list is pretty endless.

People play games for fun, not to spend 5 hours in a dungeon waiting for X mob to pop so they can kill it for a low percentage chance of a basic item to drop, not a rare super uber triple deluxe drop with a cherry on top, a standard basic scroll which is a basic element of their job.

[MattyWS]

Lets start with Flare/Fire IV, least I think it was that one. To get that scroll you have to travel to Xarc then all the way to the bottom of Castle Z where you have to fight a level 71~73 monster (for a level 50 scroll don't forget) for a 0.8% chance of Flare dropping (I got lucky, 1/1 when I went to farm it) which is impossible for a level 50 mage to actually do solo.

Lets go with.... Water next, Flood. It only drops from 1 normal (non NM) mob, much better odds though up to 2.5% so you only need to kill 50 of them before your spell will drop.

Burst? I got bored after an hour or so of killing pots in Sky and only getting thunder 3 which I already had.

Utsusemi: Ni? If the drop rate was high then the price would be low, correct? Supply would out-strip demand therefore the price would have to reduce to sell otherwise none would sell at a high price.

Tele scrolls? Easy, you quest for them so there is a 100% guaranteed method of obtaining them, same as Utstusemi: Ichi, there is no sense of achievement in that, it's a "run from point A to point B and do stuff" thing.

Asuran Fists? That's it? That's all you have (sword, katana, great katana, dagger for me so far)? And that's the simple easy as pie 300 pointer, try unlocking the weapons from KSNM's that require 500 points..... twice. It's a much bigger achievement than getting a scroll but only in the fact it takes such a long time to do it.

Simple fact is, if you make skills scrollable you're going to end up with low level scrolls that are out of the price range of lower level players, Phalanx, lvl 33 RDM costs 340k, RDM is a basic job (not a job you need to unlock) so would easily be a new players first job up to that level, did you have 340k by the time you were level 33? Scroll of Invisible, 50k, level 25, the list is pretty endless.

People play games for fun, not to spend 5 hours in a dungeon waiting for X mob to pop so they can kill it for a low percentage chance of a basic item to drop, not a rare super uber triple deluxe drop with a cherry on top, a standard basic scroll which is a basic element of their job.

I think you misunderstood. The guy I was talking to said that it was easy to get scrolls thus should have no complaint if he thinks that.

About what you said, I agree FFXI was some times a bit ridiculous with the levels of mobs that drop items for lower level people. FFXIV doesn't have to be that way, SE could make the drop rate 10% for a level 40 scroll that drops from a level 40 mob.

Also Asuran fists was my first quested WS and I was using it as an example, I can't sum up all of my FFXI achievements in a single sentence.. I had MNK, PUP, NIN and SAM at 75 (mainly due to the fact I had full usukane and my MNK and PUP wetre the only 75, so I wanted to make the most of it), so yea hand to hand ws wasn't the only ws I had. Heck I even got my staff skill capped and got the quested WS for that just to mess about with on MNK. My point is stop presuming that a single sentence I wrote is the only thing I have done in my life, it's a silly assumption to make.

[Lexxuk]

My point is stop presuming that a single sentence I wrote is the only thing I have done in my life, it's a silly assumption to make.

I apologise for making a silly assumption, it was rude on my part to assume that H2H was your only unlocked WS. I'm currently in the middle of unlocking the Ice Staff trial, it does make the WS unlocks look like a walk in the park (kill 150 arcana mobs using ice... kill 250 x mobs using ice.... joy).