with this mindset the future looks dim

[Rosy]

And all that's great...in single player games.

It's common courtesy, MMO or elsewhere, to do simple things that prevent you from wasting other peoples' time in group activities.

Let me adjust that "It's common nowadays, MMO or elsewhere, to watch videos".....When MMOs were new, and before the dreaded WoW....NOBODY looked at videos, read write ups...EVER. People actually ENJOYED playing, and helping other players, because how can you "waste time" playing a game??? The number of (uber) people standing around in Revenant's Toll tells me that they don't know what wasting time is!!! Get them in a dungeon/raid with new people and all of a sudden from standing around for an hour, anything that goes wrong is "wasting their time"...duh!

This has to be the most toxic, juvenile community I have ever witnessed in any mmo...well WoW comes close. I feel it's coming from the console people who have never played MMOs but only first person shooter type games, where kids and bad manners are rife.

We need to teach these people that manners actually matter and that tantrums and rudeness will not be tolerated, who knows, it may even teach them some useful life skills

[Garlyle]

Let me adjust that "It's common nowadays, MMO or elsewhere, to watch videos".....When MMOs were new, and before the dreaded WoW....NOBODY looked at videos, read write ups...EVER.

Sorry, but while the rise of YouTube and hyper-comprehensive wikis is relatively recent in MMO history, there have always been sites to go digging for information, and people have used them constantly.

And maybe I was just playing the wrong ones, but most of the older MMOs I've been through, the reality was that if you could handle one piece of content you could handle them all, short of being underlevelled/wrongly geared. The entirity of the 'skill' was just knowing how to play your class and which elemental weakness you should be exploiting, because past that, challenges weren't nearly as significantly differentiated from one another as they are in modern MMOs.

[DarkStaoneDragon]

This has to be the most toxic, juvenile community I have ever witnessed in any mmo...well WoW comes close. I feel it's coming from the console people who have never played MMOs but only first person shooter type games, where kids and bad manners are rife.

We need to teach these people that manners actually matter and that tantrums and rudeness will not be tolerated, who knows, it may even teach them some useful life skills

how true that is, but unfortunately kids these days are raised by games and tv.

[xenosuke1]

I feel it's coming from the console people who have never played MMOs but only first person shooter type games, where kids and bad manners are rife.

u need to sit down and take a real long hard look at the idiocy you posted, if you really wanna talk about bad manners all you gotta do is look in the mirror, your trying to single out a very smal playerbase without any proof i might add. pc outnumbers console by 4 to 1 its not just coming from one poticular group so dont try to cheery pick, so here ima give u alot proof to back up my statement.

wow is pc, guild wars 2 is pc, league of legends pc, swtor is pc, i can name tons that are pc and have horrible communities where console players havent touched, hmm man the proof is startin to add up. this has got to be the only game so far that has pc/console together so tell me out of all the mmos. which player base has contributed the most to toxic enviorments hmm? do your homework before you post dumb thoughts.

another thing im going to add, pc ppl helped create alot of tumoil for console players always blaming them excluding them from dungeons and or raids but i will add i do not see that so much anymore, but it makes you wonder maybe you pc players helped make alot of angry console players with bad manners, sry had to put a lil rant in there i jus get real bad reactions when i run into idiots.

[Crysten]

Let me adjust that "It's common nowadays, MMO or elsewhere, to watch videos".....When MMOs were new, and before the dreaded WoW....NOBODY looked at videos, read write ups...EVER. People actually ENJOYED playing, and helping other players, because how can you "waste time" playing a game???

You tell me where you could find easily accessible and detailed information sources and video guides for any MMO back when 56k was still the norm. YouTube wasn't even a thing when WoW was released!

People didn't help each other out in-game in games like EQ and early FFXI out of the goodness of their hearts. It was because...well...you kinda had to.

[Kuwagami]

I just don't understand one thing, people talk about experiencing content and exploring, but they go in asking the party for an explanation on what to do, so what is the difference between looking it up beforehand and having someone write down to you what you would have looked up?

There is a little difference between having read a detailed guide/watched a video and just have a few guide lines in the beginning of a new fight. I guess it would be the difference between being spoonfed and being served a meal.

You still have to figure out what the hell is happening to you in real time

As an example, I went in a moggle Ex group as a tank. No video, no guide, nothing. People just said "tank the kind, trade hate cuz stack, don't kill the adds". I still wiped us like a noob a dozen of times because I was late on trading, letting the adds having the damage buff, taking the meteor... Tons of fun really (joking here..).

Though it's true that there isn't much difference, as watching a video beforehand is about as useful as doing nothing. You know the big lines, and missed the tons of details which would allow you to do a proper job.

It's common courtesy, MMO or elsewhere, to do simple things that prevent you from wasting other peoples' time in group activities.

Not really. It HAS BECOME "common courtesy" when people started to harass other players about how much they were "wasting their precious time". There was a time when people were teaching the newcomers, because every newb instructed would become a valuable ally in future content. Nowadays, people are playing MMOs in a solo mindset : You're not playing together, you're maxing the amount of things you can do as a person in the minimum amount of time.
Playing together (aka "having fun") doesn't have a "time wasted" value. How could it be wasted if you *play* with other people ?

But yeah, time changes, mentalities do as well. It's just a pity that now new players are told to "WATCH A VID OR GTFO" when you could teach them yourself if you really want that bad to avoid a few wipes.

snip

got ninja'ed

[VallisRaine]

And all that's great...in single player games.

It's common courtesy, MMO or elsewhere, to do simple things that prevent you from wasting other peoples' time in group activities.

And if you join DF expecting a pro group after the 20+min que then your wasting your time

[ulti_19]

And all that's great...in single player games.

It's common courtesy, MMO or elsewhere, to do simple things that prevent you from wasting other peoples' time in group activities.

It's not common courtesy to make someone watch content before fighting it. A gamer, is just that, a gamer trying to beat a game or portion of it. Everyone has a first time in a dungeon, before it comes up as a youtube guide. It should be common courtesy to let a player wipe until he/she discovers a good way to beat said content. This new way of watching everything beforehand is just fking pathetic.

[ArashiDaigon]

And all that's great...in single player games.

It's common courtesy, MMO or elsewhere, to do simple things that prevent you from wasting other peoples' time in group activities.

So the people who did the content and wiped sooooo many times, so you can watch said videos or do the "research" did what to help themselves? Oh right, they went in, learned from their mistakes and... what do you know.... they were able to make a video for people to do exactly what they did, but they only provide the video when they have downed it, so it always looks soooooo easy. Personally, I think the videos are a plague, helpful, but still a plague because it allows the others to suddenly say, that's easy... then someone messes up, OMG learn your job!! or some other random rage comment.

[Alistaire]

So the people who did the content and wiped sooooo many times, so you can watch said videos or do the "research" did what to help themselves? Oh right, they went in, learned from their mistakes and... what do you know.... they were able to make a video for people to do exactly what they did, but they only provide the video when they have downed it, so it always looks soooooo easy. Personally, I think the videos are a plague, helpful, but still a plague because it allows the others to suddenly say, that's easy... then someone messes up, OMG learn your job!! or some other random rage comment.

And those people were in a group where that was abundantly clear going in; abundantly clear it was a "learning" party, and abundantly clear that everyone had to figure it out together. Your point, it is beaten.

Edit: not that your argument was a good one to begin with.