WTF WHMs?

[subteraneanbird]

I tend not to because in nearly every instance it actually doesn't matter. Either your WAR will stun the trash fine, or they don't need to be stunned, or its a boss and you shouldn't be stunning. Also note that Holy is much less sustainable than anything else so there's no reason to ever really use it for singular enemies. Period.

[Songi]

Holy is extremely useful for adds in boss encounters that often get ignored. Using Holy against 2nd boss glider adds while in range of the boss itself is the best way to play this encounter in a speed run. On the huge pulls in Brayflox HM if the tank is smart with CD's I can spam Holy until everything dies without having to use a single Cure. Honestly you're not doing a speed run right if you're not using it as WHM.

[subteraneanbird]

Again you're not understanding. That's a multiple enemy situation. Holy works. What I'm saying is, bolded so you finally understand, there is zero reason to use holy on a single enemy, boss trash or otherwise.

[Nicobo]

Again you're not understanding. That's a multiple enemy situation. Holy works. What I'm saying is, bolded so you finally understand, there is zero reason to use holy on a single enemy, boss trash or otherwise.

I have an example for single enemy situation,
Roulette got AK and fresh 50 under-geared tank, tank didn't dodge clone aoe from the single giant,
DPS were fine, in this case, holy stun the giant twice and the giant was killed by dps. not bad. ^^

[kujowaltz]

I have an example for single enemy situation,
Roulette got AK and fresh 50 under-geared tank, tank didn't dodge clone aoe from the single giant,
DPS were fine, in this case, holy stun the giant twice and the giant was killed by dps. not bad. ^^

We were discussing single target dps and which is more effective....based on dps. Obviously if you need a stun use a skill that stuns; that's CC, not dps, and hence a different subject. But a noteworthy comment all the same and a proper use of holy.

[AngelicSence]

I have an example for single enemy situation,
Roulette got AK and fresh 50 under-geared tank, tank didn't dodge clone aoe from the single giant,
DPS were fine, in this case, holy stun the giant twice and the giant was killed by dps. not bad. ^^

I think we should all know by now when to use what spell effectively. It's not like we can't use holy on a single target, it has high potency + stun effect, but also mana consuming.
There is really rare situation where you have to use holy on singular enemy. By the time you see AoE is coming, it's late to bother with holy. I would just walk away out of AoE zone and Aero 2, Aero + virus + stone2 combo him. Also.. It's suprize me, lv50 who can't dodge AoE.. It's very sad.. I still understand if player lagging etc, but sigh

[Bigpurpleharness]

Bard

I never need Ballad unless the other DD are doing pitiful damage, so stuff isn't dying in under 10 holies. That being said, holy is worth more than 20% of a Bard's damage, as a rule. I still prefer requiem and have no MP issues though.

[Jim_Berry]

You know, my problem is this:

As a WHM, I get yelled at for a lack of dps if I don't do more than two Holys.

As a BRD, when WHMs spam Holy, it's not a problem to give them Ballad even with Battle Voice. The way I see it, their Stun and aoe damage is more valuable than just my aoe. I'll gladly take a loss of damage considering the WHM is picking it up and I helping them do so.

This game is getting frustrating; you're yelled at if you do something or don't do something. And not to come at you negative, Whatley, but songs ARE part of what BRD is for. So many BRDs want to be high on the damage charts but ignore their responsibilty. I hear NO BRDs complain about using Requiem. Why? Because it does not lower their own damage.

If I see a WHM spamming Holy and the PLD spamming Flash, I WILL put up Ballad.
If I see a WAR spamming Overpower and the DRG spamming his aoe move, I WILL put up Paeon.

Again, I get trash-talked because I'm killing my damage, but I don't care.

[subteraneanbird]

Ideally, if you see us using Holy, you'd Requiem since that actually helps way more than Ballad.

[ariaandkia]

Ideally, if you see us using Holy, you'd Requiem since that actually helps way more than Ballad.

Or Requiem when the holy starts and ballad when it stops.

Then again, usually you don't see enough holies to make requiem worth it.

Firstly, I never said attacking ended the status effects of heavy nor stun, I was merely pointing out that with at least 3 people beating on target, a status effect such as heavy or stun is irrelevant to dps and shouldn't be factored into calculating dps. I meant negating the effect...on dps.

If you refer to the comment resulting in this topic, the assumption was made that holy was a better DAMAGE spell than stone 2. I pointed out that may not be the case depending on the situation, resulting in more constructive brainstorming, to which you felt the need to point out a non-constructive, non-existent flaw.

Secondly, topics evolve. Please don't refer me to the original post when my comment on WHM dps had nothing to do with it. I've already read the original post and commented on it as such.

Thirdly, i'm an iLvl 90 BLM, I'm aware of sleep's limitations.

Fourthly, that's great you stun with holy so effectively, I wish more WHM did that!

You should still consider in stun and such as factors. If say melee DPS had to keep avoiding aoes from enemies, they won't do as much damage. If an enemy throws out a debuff that stops the DPS from really dps'ing (pacification, stun, paralyze, etc). that also lowers dps. In addition, stuns stops repositioning. This can help the DPS get their full position bonus on an enemy (especially since some enemies get spun randomly for various reasons). I've literally stunned an enemy because I saw that the lancer couldn't get their heavy thrust in on an enemy. Stunned it, they got their buff, after a few seconds, stunned it again so that they could put on the debuff.

And there are many other ways that certain status effects can indirectly help DPS. Example: Heavy on a fast running enemy running away from your DPS (for whatever reason). Slowing it down could mean the difference between failed DPS skills and successful DPS skills.

Similar to the arguments behind buffing a person or debuffing an enemy instead of healing that person as a healer. Do I reduce their damage taken by about 10% or do I heal them? I'm not adding to my healing, but i'm reducing the amount I have to heal which ends up being just as useful.

I see things as this: Even if it doesn't have a direct effect, it can have an indirect effect.