WTF WHMs?

[ColorOfSakura]

I'd also like to point out that Holy is our most potent damage spell as well. Stone II is 170 single target. Holy is 200 AoE + Stun. It's just a better spell for damage.

[kujowaltz]

I'd also like to point out that Holy is our most potent damage spell as well. Stone II is 170 single target. Holy is 200 AoE + Stun. It's just a better spell for damage.

how are you quantifying "better spell for damage"? Here's some napkin math...

single target stone 2 spam: 170 potency at 159 mp ---> 1.07 p/mp and 63.6 mp/s
single target holy spam: 200 potency at 532 mp ---> 0.38 p/mp and 152 mp/s

Potency compared to time executed would be 1.07*63.6 = 68.15 p/s (stone 2) and 0.38*152 = 57.75 p/s (holy). Sooooo stone 2 is technically (albeit negligibly) more efficient than holy for single target dps based on potency, mp, and time.

for multiple targets...yeah, not even a question lol :P

[subteraneanbird]

how are you quantifying "better spell for damage"? Here's some napkin math...

single target stone 2 spam: 170 potency at 159 mp ---> 1.07 p/mp and 63.6 mp/s
single target holy spam: 200 potency at 532 mp ---> 0.38 p/mp and 152 mp/s

Potency compared to time executed would be 1.07*63.6 = 68.15 p/s (stone 2) and 0.38*152 = 57.75 p/s (holy). Sooooo stone 2 is technically (albeit negligibly) more efficient than holy for single target dps based on potency, mp, and time.

for multiple targets...yeah, not even a question lol :P

Your math doesn't factor the (equivalent to) 10% potency boost from Cleric Stance.

Your final numbers are 74.8 p/s and 62.9 p/s respectively, which further swings it into Stone 2's favor exclusively for single targets.

[ariaandkia]

how are you quantifying "better spell for damage"? Here's some napkin math...

single target stone 2 spam: 170 potency at 159 mp ---> 1.07 p/mp and 63.6 mp/s
single target holy spam: 200 potency at 532 mp ---> 0.38 p/mp and 152 mp/s

Potency compared to time executed would be 1.07*63.6 = 68.15 p/s (stone 2) and 0.38*152 = 57.75 p/s (holy). Sooooo stone 2 is technically (albeit negligibly) more efficient than holy for single target dps based on potency, mp, and time.

for multiple targets...yeah, not even a question lol :P

You forgot one factor.

Stun. Stone 2 doesn't stun. Stone 1 slows. Holy Stuns. Aero and Aero 2 apply DoTs.

[kujowaltz]

Your math doesn't factor the (equivalent to) 10% potency boost from Cleric Stance.

Your final numbers are 74.8 p/s and 62.9 p/s respectively, which further swings it into Stone 2's favor exclusively for single targets.

Ahhhh cool! thanks for the addition

You forgot one factor.

Stun. Stone 2 doesn't stun. Stone 1 slows. Holy Stuns. Aero and Aero 2 apply DoTs.

No, I didn't forget. This is concerning single target dps and neither stun nor slow will matter because you have at least 3 other people beating on the target and negating the effect. Besides, how do you quantify a factor like that? We were crunching numbers based on a controlled scenario, status effects don't fit in.

[ariaandkia]

Ahhhh cool! thanks for the addition



No, I didn't forget. This is concerning single target dps and neither stun nor slow will matter because you have at least 3 other people beating on the target and negating the effect. Besides, how do you quantify a factor like that? We were crunching numbers based on a controlled scenario, status effects don't fit in.

Stun does not get removed by attacks. Sleep does.

And might I return to opening post:

WTF is it with most of you White Mages spamming Holy when there is just three mobs or less in the lv.50 dungeons? Yes, I have seen White Mages use Holy on just two mobs and even a single mob.

It's this way most of the time when I queue for Duty Finder as Bard. It's like you see a Bard in the group and you are all like "Ooh, Mana Battery!". To me you are just wasting mana.

When I see a White Mages start spamming Holy, I don't use Mage's Ballad till after the fight. At the next fight I turn it off. If they are still halfway or less on mana when we start the next fight, then oh well. They should of not spammed Holy on just two mobs. If the next fight is a boss fight, then I do leave ballad up a bit after the start of the boss fight if White Mage still needs some mana.

No specifying that it was a question of DPS.

===

As for the aoe thiing. You can usually tell when the aoe is coming. That is why sometimes I cast a repose and have it hit at the same time the skill starts (instant cancel) or throw out a holy and have it hit at the same time thus instant cancelling

[braneri1]

At this point, since I'm only ilvl 55 and still working on getting my relic weapon, I just use holy about 4 times if there are 3+ enemies and I have breathing room to wait a while before needing to heal anyone. I don't use it much more than that so that I don't hold up the group too much between pulls. Usually what I'll do is put up a few aeros to give the tank a chance to get a decent lead on enmity (preferably with stoneskin up at the start, assuming they don't rush off to the next pull so fast I can't reapply it at the end of the previous one), stone 2 on whatever tank is focusing attacks on until he's at about 60% hp, then divine seal/regen/top off the tank to about 85%-90% hp (whatever range where regen will not overheal based on the damage being taken), then switch back to cleric stance and use a few holys, and go back to healing when needed. I try not to stand around doing nothing unless I absolutely have to focus on healing in a long boss fight.

I've been trying to gear up more with myth equipment (I only have one thing so far.), but it sometimes can be difficult to keep up with healing when tanks rush so much and do massive pulls, in the hm duty finder dungeons I've tried so far. It's frustrating being usually the only person not overgeared and struggling to keep up with speed runs, even when I say something about it. All but one time the tank just assumed a speed run without even asking if everyone is comfortable with that, and even started boss fights when I was at less than half mp (and when we had plenty of opportunity to let it refresh, i.e. not locking out mobs but rather, we could've just stood at the entrance for a minute or so with nothing around) in spite of my efforts to manage things (about the only time I overheal at all is if I have a freecure proc and want to use it before it goes away, in which case about 50% of it is actually applied, and in those situations I have no worries about pulling enmity from anything so it doesn't matter). Most of the time I get little to no consideration. One time I even got immediately kicked when I died ONCE on the second boss in copperbell hm, before I could even respawn, and I had even said at the start (as I always do for anything new) that it was my first time running hm dungeons.

I think I have healing down pretty well for the most part (though whm is my only level 50 so far), aside from learning specific timings of boss fights so I can be ready to heal or re-position ahead of time and maybe rearranging my cross bars a bit, but regardless of how on top of things I am, there comes a point where my gear just cannot keep up with how much is being pulled, and I should not be blamed/kicked for that, especially in duty finder. If it was a party finder group, that of course would be quite different as any expectations are put up for all to see, but aside from level/ilvl, there are no such requirements for duty finder that I am aware of, so I think it's ridiculous for me to take flak for it, especially considering I am often more communicative than the other players, especially the tank. These drag racing tanks pretty much only say something once we wipe due to them pulling too much, which then leads to either nonconstructive complaining, or a rage quit. Honestly I feel worse for the dps than myself when that happens because of their much longer queue times. I don't like letting people down, but in order for me to be more helpful, I need the myth and [personal] experience; I can only do a few roulettes per day right now since I only have the low level and story mode ones unlocked, and beast tribe quests don't pay out that much, so once I've exhausted those options in the day, all I have left to do is run dungeons. I guess some people just don't realize that the player base isn't stagnant, and that there are a lot of people still joining...I myself have just been playing for about a month now.

[subteraneanbird]

The stun is minimal at best because of DR and the fact that even the first Stun only lasts until the second Holy comes out. That should not be a factor in deciding which spell is the best for the situation.

[ariaandkia]

The stun is minimal at best because of DR and the fact that even the first Stun only lasts until the second Holy comes out. That should not be a factor in deciding which spell is the best for the situation.

Don't underestimate the usefulness of the stun when your only other stun is really your warrior. Not saying you should use it only because of the stun but that it should be something to consider in.

[Kinseykinz]

Don't underestimate the usefulness of the stun when your only other stun is really your warrior. Not saying you should use it only because of the stun but that it should be something to consider in.

Fluid Aura also works as a 'Stun' of Sorts' Technically it's a knockback+bind, but it will also interrupt many mob moves etc. And is instant....and costs no MP. Now, don't make a party play wack a mole with mobs either, but a well-timed Fluid Aura will work just as well if not better than a well-timed Holy for many interuptions. (I'll use it in Haukke Manor Normal for example if a tank pulls a pack of mobs and we get addiitional aggro from the Maidservants as it stuns her Circle AoE so it doesn't happen and knocks her/binds her away for a couple seconds so tank can get a handle on the situation). Again, don't use this willy-nilly....but if all you need is a stun, esp soloing, Fluid Aura is the way to go most of the time.