WTF WHMs?

[Pantz]

If no one is dying, what's your problem? Most WHMs can manage their MP very well. Just mind your own business and stop thinking all WHMs are too stupid to manage their own mana.

The only time you should complain about a healer is if they aren't doing their job. i.e Keeping people alive.

[Whatley]

A summary of the postings here.

With the original post I mainly just wanted to know what was up with the spamming of the Holy spell. I was a bit angry when I wrote it and I shouldn't of been.

To the people that replied with information about the spell and the spamming, Thank You. I don't have a Lv.50 WHM so I didn't know. Like I said in a previous post, I feel the need to use Mage's Ballad whenever I see the healer's mp at about half or less. This person said it best as that we(Bards) freak out when we see the low mp of a healer:

You got it all wrong. The WHM Holying and burning their MP does not need you to recover it, they can do it by themselves with SoS and between the pulls. I've wondered why BRDs try to ballad me instead of swiftsong and requiem, but I guess you just answered my question: they're freaking out. No WHM who knows what they're doing and are well geared (item level 90+) should need ballad in any of the level 50 dungeons, ever.

[Whatley]

To the people that think this thread is about yelling at WHMs to not do damage, you are wrong. It is about the useage of mana. I don't mind if a WHM dps' as long as they are able to keep the party alive as well.

If no one is dying, what's your problem? Most WHMs can manage their MP very well. Just mind your own business and stop thinking all WHMs are too stupid to manage their own mana.

The only time you should complain about a healer is if they aren't doing their job. i.e Keeping people alive.

Part of a Bard's business is to help out the group, which includes the healers when they are low on mp. Otherwise why would Bards have Mage's Ballad if no one needs it? After reading the replies here and some of the posts in the DPS forums, it seems that the only songs people want are Foe Requiem and Swiftsong.

[Pantz]

Part of a Bard's business is to help out the group, which includes the healers when they are low on mp. Otherwise why would Bards have Mage's Ballad if no one needs it? After reading the replies here and some of the posts in the DPS forums, it seems that the only songs people want are Foe Requiem and Swiftsong.

Because you have other useful buffs for the party rather than cater to a WHM who probably knows how to manage mana while casting holy.

If a healer starts to dps and spam holy, it means he is confident about having enough mana. You won't need to use song just for the healer. Use the dmg debuffs instead.

Rarely will any healer need song in 4mans. So don't bother unless he has like 400mp. The only time you should watch out for a healer needing song is in high level content where the healers have to heal their lives worth and dont even have the time to dps.

[Whatley]

Because you have other useful buffs for the party rather than cater to a WHM who probably knows how to manage mana while casting holy.

If a healer starts to dps and spam holy, it means he is confident about having enough mana. You won't need to use song just for the healer. Use the dmg debuffs instead.

I know I have other songs to use. I don't cater to just the healers. Depending on the other dps I will either use Foe or Paeon, usually for the big pulls and the bosses. It's just when I see the healer's mp at less than half in the middle of a fight I think "Oh crap! The healer needs mana!" and will want to switch to Ballad. Then of course with the spamming of Holy I feel the need to keep just Ballad up since the spell uses a lot of mp quickly. But now I know I don't need to do that anymore.

[AngelicSence]

I know I have other songs to use. I don't cater to just the healers. Depending on the other dps I will either use Foe or Paeon, usually for the big pulls and the bosses. It's just when I see the healer's mp at less than half in the middle of a fight I think "Oh crap! The healer needs mana!" and will want to switch to Ballad. Then of course with the spamming of Holy I feel the need to keep just Ballad up since the spell uses a lot of mp quickly. But now I know I don't need to do that anymore.

I think you should use it only then, when healer mp hits below 5% and mobs are still alive and healthy. When you have situation like this, that means someone is doing something wrong. From there it's up to you, save the party or let wipe happen. We can never trust pug teams I wish you best of good luck!

[Alistaire]

I know I have other songs to use. I don't cater to just the healers. Depending on the other dps I will either use Foe or Paeon, usually for the big pulls and the bosses. It's just when I see the healer's mp at less than half in the middle of a fight I think "Oh crap! The healer needs mana!" and will want to switch to Ballad. Then of course with the spamming of Holy I feel the need to keep just Ballad up since the spell uses a lot of mp quickly. But now I know I don't need to do that anymore.

Cool, was thinking for a second this thread was either a troll or someone who would come back in and vehemently defend their original position despite everything everyone was saying. Good to see someone open to learning, doesn't happen often enough.

In general knowing the abilities of the people you party with goes a long way towards knowing when/where to use your own.

[kujowaltz]

To the people that think this thread is about yelling at WHMs to not do damage, you are wrong. It is about the useage of mana. I don't mind if a WHM dps' as long as they are able to keep the party alive as well.



Part of a Bard's business is to help out the group, which includes the healers when they are low on mp. Otherwise why would Bards have Mage's Ballad if no one needs it? After reading the replies here and some of the posts in the DPS forums, it seems that the only songs people want are Foe Requiem and Swiftsong.

Mage's Ballad is the first song I believe you get as a BRD. And as such, its infinitely usefull in lvl 40+ dungeons, etc with light parties. But If you have several caster dps in a full party, where MP isn't an issue, the need for foe requiem is magnitudes greater than mage's ballad. Unless we are talking about turn 2 ADS. There are situations of course where mage's ballad is essential.

[ariaandkia]

There aren't many times when a healer has no time to dps outside of speedruns and some very specific runs such as T2 enrage. T2 Enrage DF in particular, bards are expected to run Mage's Ballad either right away or after a few seconds of combat.

However, I do like it when the bard throws me a ballad. Yes, I can use shroud, but sometimes I'm saving shroud for a big spawn of adds (T4 as an example) and not the MP. The reason for this is because of the sheer amount of healing that is necessary in order to solo heal since once the dreads start to appear, I start healing as if I was the only healer (I was the only person healing in a few too many cases). This means I pull aggro FAST. Even without regen and Medica 2, I generally will pull every wave due to how much healing is needed to keep the tank alive solo. This means that I'm saving my shroud for that big pull. Now, on the other hand, I'll use shroud normally right near the start since I like to do some holies to try to clear away the bugs a bit.

That being said, I like it when a bard knows when the healer is dropping low because they are ready to shroud and when they are dropping low because they are expecting a song. It can be really hard to tell though if the healer can't/isn't asking.

Generally though, if I need song, I'm going to be down about 2.5-3k MP (out of about 4-5k). Meaning I'll be around 1.5k MP. And I'll be sitting either around there or dropping down towards 0 for a bit. On the other hand, if I'm planning to shroud, I generally will dip down to about 1.5k and then go back upwards.

I know one of my Bard friends does this: If the healer mp drops below a certain point, he'll use the song. If the healer's mp starts to really go up, he'll end the song.

[Taika]

Usually requiem is your top priority song if there's at least one magical DD in your group. Requiem has the bonus of not lowering your own damage too. Paeon is useful if you have for example two BRDs and are doing big pulls which you'll AoE down. Swiftsong is great between pulls (I use it as soon as the last mob dies to save MP and make sure I'm not running to next group with requiem up...or aggro the colibris in longstop...). For ballad, it's usually a good idea to use it if the healer has died (especially if they're WHM and don't have shroud up) or has to raise many party members.

Ballad has its uses, especially when learning new content or running some difficult instances with solo healer. We use ballad regularly in turns 5 and 7, for example. It's just not needed for content where people know what they're doing and are overgeared for, such as level 50 dungeons, usually.