How to fix Castrum and Praetorium

[MythToken]

Sarcasm bud

Using sarcasm like that just makes you sound dumb.

[ZeroRains]

Using sarcasm like that just makes you sound dumb.

Enough, lets get back on topic.

This is a very real issue, and if we want future content to be resolved, so that players aren't forced to PF a no skipping CS (which shouldn't even really be a thing, never seen this in any other mmo) We need some sort of long Cut Scene either before or after the boss, and like Giant said, to allow it to be told in game, like how Giaus Talks during the elevator fight, just on a bigger scale.

[Vahlnir]

-snip-

As to how people handle those 2 dungeons there isn't a whole lot that can be done to curtail this behavior, though I'm hoping SE finds a way. I just consider myself lucky I was able to enjoy them myself the right way, and glad when a group allows it now for others (and yes, those groups DO happen.) Now, about Ultima Weapon's difficulty...it's the story mode's end dungeon, which means it shouldn't be overly difficult. There's the Minstrel's Ballad fight for it though which is more up your alley. That said, I do enjoy a good challenge every so often but I definitely wouldn't want to leave it to a DF party. Sometimes dealing with the party itself is challenge, let alone the mechanics of certain boss fights.

[ZReport]

There's a problem on both ends.

1) All new players who do these missions via Duty Finder should understand that this means they are subject to potential speed runners and/or people who don't care to wait on them to watch cutscenes. If they wanted to do the runs and watch cutscenes, they could have created a Party Finder or had someone help them create one. There's an option specific to Party Finder, which has been added for people who want to watch cutscenes and enjoy the fights at a slower pace.

2) Older players and veterans should make more sensible and understanding choices when it comes to running these dungeons with completely new people. At least be courteous in explaining to them that they can watch the cutscenes later -- understand that it's their first time too. A lot of players who are vets now were new players back then; those who wanted to watch cutscenes and enjoy the "feel" (or "moment") of the final two dungeons for 2.0.

I've seen players flat out call other players idiots for not skipping cutscenes and rushing through the content, without having a second thought. These same uncaring people won't even take out the time to explain what's going on in the same dungeon as well.

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As a tank, I make it a point to allow anyone to view cutscenes, but I let them know that we will burn through most of the content quickly, so to them it will be one large on-going cutscene. All of Prae and CM can be completed with 1 good tank, 1 good healer and about 3 DPS. That includes the tank grabbing all of the adds on each boss. So essentially up to three others could be completely new and watch cutscenes while everyone else kills everything.

[Welsper59]

It's so sad that it's a problem. Had this been 10-15 years ago, dungeons like CM/Prae would be an absolute dream for players to run, even with the cutscenes. Chances are, those dungeons would have intentional blocks to slow player progress so that you couldn't rush through it too. It wouldn't be considered normal to SR anything... at all. The experience was going to almost always be awesome for everyone, whether you wanted to hurry through it or not.

Mentality has sadly changed and we have people who suffer from a self-imposed degree of ADD, which seems to even impact some folks who were around back then. We've gone from a gaming community that sought experience, memories, and action, to a community that's about the reward. If the reward isn't the experience/memories/actions, and it slows your progress to get said reward, it's not worth your stereotypical peers time. It's funny that we can stereotype others like this, but that's how it is. Some of us were like this from over a decade ago, where we played MMOs solo (whenever possible). A lot of these people (myself included) understand/understood that this comes at a price. You will not experience everything and you will encounter hardships that other players won't. It's our choice to do this, and again... we understood this simple fact. Today, given the self-imposed ADD audience, people can't grasp that fact. They just can't understand it. They're not stupid for this lack of understanding, they're just... ignorant.

The times have changed. Those of us that want the experience, have to seek it out for ourselves. It's currently about the rewards. It's no longer about the experience, as that time has come and gone. Short of forcing the player base to do so, the devs will not create content that our peers will find the patience to wait on you for. They will complain if forced to wait even a fraction of a second, and like anything they come in contact with, they will forget about what unique positives came from their time playing. Instead, they will simply focus on any negatives about it. The majority base is so predictable in what they think they want that it's not very funny to think about (anymore). There's a reason why memes are so funny and accurate. There's a reason why we have stereotypes that we can all relate to. We're simply too predictable. There's more money to be made in catering to the majority, so you can't quite fault a company like SE on that. We, the players, are the ones responsible for the bad behavior of our peers, and the direction a game goes toward. The sooner people understand that, the sooner change can come about.

[Amberion]

It's so sad that it's a problem. Had this been 10-15 years ago, dungeons like CM/Prae would be an absolute dream for players to run, even with the cutscenes. Chances are, those dungeons would have intentional blocks to slow player progress so that you couldn't rush through it too. It wouldn't be considered normal to SR anything... at all. The experience was going to almost always be awesome for everyone, whether you wanted to hurry through it or not.

Had this been 10-15 years ago, we would only re-run it to help people. We would not have had to rerun something like this so many times that it would have been a problem.

[AthrunZolza]

Honestly it should be fixed I will admit I never got to see them :/ everyone rushed and I was lost enough as it was I didn't wanna get left behind and lost more so if anyone ever wants to run that for the cs make a pf or get up some friends who want to watch them with you if people on my df party watch I personally wait

[MohammadSaeed]

As along FF fan, I can say that my first time to finish the game with these two dungeons was round because of the overgeared player and the speedrunners. SE can and should fix this since their whole game is story driven line all other FF's. the final dungeons are 8 man’s party and it should be challenging by making ilev "synic", this should solve the problem by making ever single party member needed to progress. in my personal experience I missed 2 major fights because the other tank was ilev 90 and did not need me. I just want to say for all expert and high level player please remember the thrill and in the early dungeons, I really miss it at the end.!!

[Akujin]

snip

Sadly, the problem is, a great number of people who play the game are not Final Fantasy fans. They don't really care about the stories, or the time the developers put into things. They only want shiney armor and something to amuse themselves until the next 'big' thing comes along to take their attention. Think of a bunch of cats watching a laser pointer moving around a wall. Basically that, instead of questioning the reason for the laser pointer, its origin, its purpose. They only see the shiny at the end of the tunnel and go at it narrow visioned.

Those who did enjoy their cutscenes and now demand others push through the content because they can rewatch them at the Inn are simply hypocrits, plain and simple.

It's really just an ouroboros type of thing, the snake eating itself. On one end you have people who want to play content as it was meant to be played (the new players to the experience) on the end you have those who have ran it numerous times and just want to get it over with (the old players) and they conflict, because the old players are impatient and want everyone else to cater to their way of life, rather than accepting that the game was not made specifically for their enjoyment. As others have stated, there's plenty of other alternative methods to acquire the Myth tomes that can be gained from the game, rather than rerunning these two dungeons and potentially interfering with new players who want to experience it. For one reason or another, they choose not to take those alternative routes and want to bully people into doing it their way instead.

The only way this sort of behavior ends, is if SE purposefully does something to these two dungeons that requires total party participation at all times, so that no one can be left out. Such as, one person suggested for a system check that only unlocks a boss sequence once every member is out of the cutscenes. Or, a system check that monitors player positioning as the Map does for all 8 players in the boss arena itself before the next sequence begins. The first, would only prevent people from locking out others while in a cutscene, but would do nothing to prevent people from bitching in chat and demanding others skip cutscenes. The latter, would force everyone to be in the same area, which is independent of the cutscenes. The con on that, is you're very likely to have someone (or many) who will assume that someone who isn't always promptly up their ass and ready at the same time as them are intentionally holding the progress back for one reason or another and initiate a kick.

All in all, SE can place countermeasures in, but you can't really prevent assholes from being assholes. It's who and what they are, nothing is going to change that.

[blowfin]

Sadly, the problem is, a great number of people who play the game are not Final Fantasy fans. They don't really care about the stories, or the time the developers put into things

No, the problem is that even the people who are Final Fantasy fans tire of running the same instance dozens of times. You're not exactly going to run CM and Prae multiple times and insist on watching the cutscenes in full every time, are you?!

It's really just an ouroboros type of thing, the snake eating itself. On one end you have people who want to play content as it was meant to be played (the new players to the experience) on the end you have those who have ran it numerous times and just want to get it over with (the old players) and they conflict, because the old players are impatient and want everyone else to cater to their way of life, rather than accepting that the game was not made specifically for their enjoyment. As others have stated, there's plenty of other alternative methods to acquire the Myth tomes that can be gained from the game, rather than rerunning these two dungeons and potentially interfering with new players who want to experience it. For one reason or another, they choose not to take those alternative routes and want to bully people into doing it their way instead.

I can't help but feel you're painting a quite inaccurate (and ugly) portrait of the playerbase there. That kind of thing helps nobody. You're basically saying experienced players are:
- Impatient
- Bullies
- Selfish
- Ignorant

Apart from that being a negative and destructive view, it's just not the truth for the majority of people out there. If someone wants to run Story roulette over spamming Brayflox, that's totally their choice. What kind of attitude they bring is another story though.

All in all, SE can place countermeasures in, but you can't really prevent assholes from being assholes. It's who and what they are, nothing is going to change that.

More or less that's the crux of the matter.

Both camps need to understand a few things:
- People are going to be running this dungeon for tomes. Everyone needs to be tolerant of that.
- "Speed running" is not "speed running" when you've done the instance dozens of times. To everyone else you're actually "slow running" if you're not familiar with the dungeon.
- There will be jerks who want you to skip cutscenes. There will be jerks who lock you out of fights. Jerks are a fact of life, you will come across them in CM and Prae too.
- Sometimes when people get locked out of fights it's actually an accident.
- There will be nice people who will wait around while you watch cutscenes. There will be nice people who make sure you don't get locked out of fights. There are plenty of people around like this. Be sure to thank them with a commendation or in party chat.