BLM macros

[scarebearz]

Snip

The total damage for those few spells may be higher doing it that way, but it's the "Damage Per Second" overall that is important.

There is a GCD to weave something in for both, but a GCD in Astral Fire III with full MP is generally much more useful than a GCD when you are just going into Astral Ice MP regain phase.

Overall dps wise I doubt there is much difference between the 2 methods, but I'd go with the much more fluid method.

[ViviAnimus]

Thunder II - Fire III - Fire I until 300 MP - Swiftcast Flare - Convert - Fire I - Fire III (proc)

The last Fire III is what I am talking about. A lot of people go like Thunder II - Fire III - Fire I until 300 MP - Swiftcast Flare - Convert - Fire I - Blizzard III - Thunder II ...
What I mean in my rotation with the proc is that during my last Fire III before using Blizzard III, I press Fire III button in case a Fire III proc appears. I do this very swiftly. If there is no proc, I use Blizzard III immediately since there is almost no loss in time.
What I have seen people do to counter a proc going to waste (before MP runs out) is the following:

Thunder II - Fire III - Fire I until 300 MP - Swiftcast Flare - Convert - Fire I - (Proc here but it's not used) - Blizzard III - Thunder II - Transpose (to get 1 stack of Fire - Fire III PROC.
As I have explained, my method is better (I think) because the fire III procs hits harder and there is a GCD in both rotations.

[ViviAnimus]

As for Scarebearz: The DMG is higher too. I have been parsing for a whole night and I do 20 more DPS by using the first rotation. In both rotations there is a GCD and you do have a point that popping a cooldowns during a full MP regened Fire III is useful. However, BLM only has Raging strikes (on the offensive) and that is popped in the beginning of my rotation. It's not worth it too to keep losing potentional damage over the whole fight in because of using some cooldowns. I realise you have potions as well. But for example an X-potion of intelligence can always be used in my rotation after my method:

Thunder II - Fire III - Fire I until 300 MP - Swiftcast Flare - Convert - Fire I - Fire III (proc) - Blizzard III - Thunder II - Fire III - Pop Potion.

Sure, it's not used during a GCD, but I argue that you would still lose more DPS overall if you ignore the 250 damage potentional damage every time.

[Urielparadox]

What I mean in my rotation with the proc is that during my last Fire III before using Blizzard III, I press Fire III button in case a Fire III proc appears. I do this very swiftly. If there is no proc, I use Blizzard III immediately since there is almost no loss in time. .

Much better that is understandable and makes much more since.

Please don't take this offensively. The test you did was unneeded, but great for you for the effort) though as its posted in the main black mage rotation forum, the discussion happened at the time that the nerf to af/ui occurred if you want to try and find the page.

[Umero]

ever try this and see if it's better? if a firestarter kicks in when you have about 1k mp, cast 1 more fire and then firestarter's fire3, blizzard 3, etc.
if there's no firestarter and you have reached 1k mp, cast fire 3 instead of fire 1, cast firestarter's fire3 if you got the proc from previous fire 1, then blizzard 3, etc.
see if it does slightly better or not.
just wondering, I haven't actually tried this yet.

[YanderePrincess]

The total damage for those few spells may be higher doing it that way, but it's the "Damage Per Second" overall that is important.

There is a GCD to weave something in for both, but a GCD in Astral Fire III with full MP is generally much more useful than a GCD when you are just going into Astral Ice MP regain phase.

Overall dps wise I doubt there is much difference between the 2 methods, but I'd go with the much more fluid method.

Wouldn't another factor to consider, which would tie into the "overall dps" issue, be the fact that you have to wait a moment to cast the Firestarted Fire III rather than instantly going into Blizzard III when the Fire I finishes casting? Thus delaying the damage output by a small amount. Could that delay reduce the overall dps to make the two match up (ignoring the placement of any off-GCD skills, just comparing the direct dps of the two methods).

[scarebearz]

Wouldn't another factor to consider, which would tie into the "overall dps" issue, be the fact that you have to wait a moment to cast the Firestarted Fire III rather than instantly going into Blizzard III when the Fire I finishes casting? Thus delaying the damage output by a small amount. Could that delay reduce the overall dps to make the two match up (ignoring the placement of any off-GCD skills, just comparing the direct dps of the two methods).

Yes, this is what I mean about "Damage Per Second" overall, due to the wait time.

As for Scarebearz: The DMG is higher too. I have been parsing for a whole night and I do 20 more DPS by using the first rotation.

Are you just parsing those few spells mentioned? Or doing longer tests with both rotations?

I honestly don't see how it could give you 20 more dps, even if it is a superior method.

[ViviAnimus]

I was parsing for 10 minutes plus on each attempt. However, I must conclude that RNG such a critical hit, amount of fire procs at the end, thunder procs etc ... have a say in this. Although everytime I parsed using the second method I was around 320 DPS instead of 340. It was pretty consistent. I have thought about Yandere his or her remark as well. But I am really fast. You just press Fire III button very shortly and immediately move on to Blizzard III. I guess there is still a bit of time that is lost, but I would argue that in an 11 minute battle you perhaps accumalate how many Fire Procs at the end? Lets just say 20 hypocthetically. That's 20x250 more damage = 5000 over the second method.
How many more spells do you think you would be able to cast extra by using the second method? Enough to get that kind of damage over 11 minutes?
I must also continue to stress that you basically only lose just a fraction of time using my method when you do it right.

[Pyroclastic]

Thunder II - Fire III - Fire I until 300 MP - Swiftcast Flare - Convert - Fire I - Fire III (proc)
What I mean in my rotation with the proc is that during my last Fire III before using Blizzard III, I press Fire III button in case a Fire III proc appears. I do this very swiftly. If there is no proc, I use Blizzard III immediately since there is almost no loss in time.

This. 100% true. I have been testing this for months now and my conclussion is that you simply HAVE to use all fireprocs during astral III, or it's simply wasted..
What I am still wondering about though, and I hope you have tested this single target rotation, Vivianimus.. Do you think that using swiftcast flare every time swiftcast is up, followed by instant transpose -> thunder II -> Fire III -> fire, is higher dps in the long run than only using swiftcast flare when convert is up?

For testing purposes I have tried to test both rotations by NEVER using convert, NEVER using ANY procs and parsing for 6 minutes (it's hard to keep this non-proc rotation up so that's why only 6 min ) and more often than not the "300mp-swiftcast flare-transpose-T2-F3"- rotation would be about 10% more dps than the normal "300mp-B3-T2-F3"-rotation.
But I'm still not 100% convinced, because sometimes the first rotation (swiftcast flare on CD) would be just the same dps as the normal rotation.. So that makes me think that it really depends on how fast you get your manatick after transpose..

[ViviAnimus]

I only swiftcast Flare when convert is up or when multiple targets are to be flared. I personally have noticed that you lose DPS when you do that. I think the reasons are:
When you use transpose, not always do you regen about 1200 mana instantly
When your mana has regened 1200 and you use thunder II and Fire III, the Fire III takes a long time
When your Fire III has been cast, sometimes you have 2400 mp instead of full mp - you could wait for another tick, but that is pure time loss and as a result DPS loss.
I honestly think that doing that results in a DPS loss because it interrupts the casting flow more than it should be. I'll try it out later though (once more)