Why do new players receive death threats for enjoying the story?

[KingOfAbyss]

I can say I have skipped every cut scene, story line or dungeon... Wanna know why? I don't care enough to read and see these characters make giggle noises. I get the jist of what's going on without having to sit through it, and there's No way I would ever think it's ok for me to slow anyone down. I feel bad when I screw up in dungeons, or if I'm new to one I announce it. Think of the other players, good lord. It's not about you!! I'm done with this thread, you guys are absurd.

Well, it's sad you won't read my post.

You "pay" for one account, to "play" the game and.. usually for Final Fantasy.. follow their awesome story. So hmm.. yes, for me, it's all about ME, the first time I see new stuff.

Then! I will put my needs aside, and helping everyone (even you if we come across a DF ) so that everyone can have a good time, the way they want it.

We can go with the majority, we can give tips "appropriately" to some, we need to "accept" them as well from others, if they are given in the same way.

As OP stated, its SE's Game that needs some "rework" - it's a constant thing, not a variable.

There will always be good and bad players, an in MMO games.. mixing it altogether. By no means we are entitled to bash someone for missing something important, or anything.

They give a set time to complete a dungeon/trial. You died? omg its the end of it, the game isn't fun.. I will be late for my next planned run into the same dungeon, I can't live anymore.. if only I was playing ALONE, this wouldn't have happened.. <-- see what I did here?

Guys, lets grow up a little, we don't (so bad) get ANY death penalty beyond a little minus for a minute or so..

You skip cutscenes, you don't bother getting into it in a Final Fantasy Game? So be it, it's your OWN choice. But other have their OWN as well.. everyone PAYS to play.

[Aldora]

Warning! Wall of text incoming! Read it if you want to. I will not be writing a “TL;DR”-version of it.

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I’m afraid that this will be a never ending discussion between 2 camps. The people who want (others) to watch the cutscenes and the people who don’t want (others) to watch the cutscenes. It’s been a discussion which has been going around ever since the start of 2.0.

It’s like i’ve mentioned in another thread, where people were being kicked from the dungeons for watching cutscenes.

Unfortunately, the issue goes beyond vote kicking players from watching Cutscenes. A lot of players are hellbent on getting the dungeon cleared as fast as possible, because they are farming tomes and don’t want to stay in a dungeon longer than necessary (which is understandable).

[snip]

But, that is not really the issue. The issue is that a lot of players don’t have any patience / tolerance for people who are less experienced in the content they are playing, or people who make mistakes.

It doesn’t really matter what SE does, because every solution they try to implement will serve as a double edged sword. It is meant to give players an environment in which they can enjoy themselves, but those same solutions can also be abused by others. For instance the Vote Kick option.

The only reason we had a Vote Kick option, was (for instance) because of people who would AFK at the beginning of the Dungeon run for easy Tomes. But, now that we have the Vote Kick option, it will be used by people who feel that the targeted person does not meet their “standards”, even though the person is doing nothing wrong.

If they are the only one who thinks that the Dungeon is going nowhere, then they’d do things like suggesting that someone else leaves the dungeon or spam Vote Abandon (to circumvent the 30 minute Lockout). Some people go through great lengths to mess up the remainder of the dungeon for everyone…

It’s not really the means presented to us, but how people use them.

The reason we have the ability to skip cutscenes was due to the fact that people were re-doing a lot of the quests during the Beta Phases of the game. Since we had to recreate our characters during a few of these phases, we would have to rewatch each cutscene. If you have to watch the same cutscene 10 times, it’s going to get old. That’s a certainty.

So, the player base asked the development team to add means to skip these cutscenes and the development team obliged.

You are totally in your right to skip a cutscene if you don’t want to see it again, but! This does not mean that everyone else around has to skip the cutscenes as well. Everyone is in their right to watch cutscenes when they please.

There is no win-win situation here. You cannot force people to skip cutscenes, but you also can’t force people to wait until everyone has watched them.

Due to this, people will be told that it’s (common) courtesy to skip the cutscenes and watch them in the inn in your own time. If 7 people have skipped their cutscenes, then you’d be “wasting their time” by having them wait for you.

I had this to say about that in the other thread as well.

Well... The thing is, people always say that it's "(common) courtesy from the new person to watch the cinematics at the inn", because they would inconvenience 7 other people in the group.

What i wonder is, why is it never the other way around? Why do people snare at you when you politely ask them to wait for everyone to get ready? Didn't we all watch the cinematics when the 2.0 was just released? Why would it be different for the players who are new to the game right now? Aren't they "entitled" to run a dungeon at their own pace and watch the cinematics along the way? As experienced players, we should be respectful to new players and show courtesy towards them for trying to enjoy the game as we did "back in the day".

There are always 2 sides to a story, 2 sides to a coin. 1 side does not "rule" over the other. We both share the same world, so why not give everyone the same degree of courtesy and respect?

Another example:

If you are standing in line at the cashier of a supermarket and there is an old (wo)man standing in front of you, paying for his/her groceries by counting each individual coin. If that happens once, you won’t mind it (much), but if you experience the same in 3 different store a few times in a week, you will get annoyed. No question about it.

But, i ask you this… What will you do? Will you tell the old (wo)man that (s)he’s has to hurry up because (s)he’s holding up the line, wasting the time of the 7 people behind her? Or will you go look for a queue of which you know beforehand that you will not have to wait?

Which if these is “common” courtesy?

You never know who you will be paired with when entering a dungeon through the Duty Finder. However, you will have more “controle” over it through the Party Finder. You can discuss if you want people to watch or skip cutscenes in there.

But, do not expect, assume or force people to do your “bidding” when you paired with random people through the Duty Finder. You can ask them to skip the cutscenes, but never demand it. Even if you can get more Tomes by going in Solo through the Roulette. That was not idea behind the bonus rewards of the Daily Roulette.

[Moqi]

Honestly the simple solution would be to put the ring around the party during cut scenes ( like the start of every dungeon) but allow us to switch jobs. If I could do a crafting item or two while someone else watches a CS then I wouldn't feel like I was wasting my time. The CS could end, everyone switches back to their job, ring fades, game on. Is it perfect, no, but it's better then nothing.

Or put some kind of minigame while we're waiting in the ring!

[KingOfAbyss]

I just want to throw it out there, if it wasn't for "speed runners" doing these story dungeons, you'd be waiting days for your DF to pop up for 8 like minded people to join.

2 Instances:

1- DF without cutscenes (standard reward, else no one would bother doing them to help besides themselves) takes 45-60min still on average.
2- DF with cutscenes (double or triple the reward)

Now people will take the 2 hours given to complete the dungeon/trial, everyone will have what they want from it.

/Case Solved SE, next ticket please!

[KingOfAbyss]

There is a simple fix : On duty, make people unable to skip the cutscene until all party member did not click on skip.
This way, they can rage all they want, they can't know witch one is watching cutscene.

+1 to that, like in other games.

And if they rage after you once you didnt skip: Report. (we live a sad virtual world.. )

[KingOfAbyss]

Its rude for either side really.

Its rude to make others who pay to watch the cutscenes, skip them but at the same time, Its rude to make the people who are helping you wait.

Early on, newer players, similar to the ones now wanting to watch all the cut-scenes need to remember that at one point, there were not enough people doing these older dungeons up to the 8 mans. In order to solve this situation, the duty roulette was installed with bonuses. However, what made these bonuses more appealing than anything is that they were fast and efficient. In the past, people stop doing slow and inefficient dungeons all together but because the duty roulette provided a substantial amount of bonuses that could be obtain in a timely manner, veterans flocked back in to these inefficient/older dungeons. On the other hand, without newer players needing help in these older dungeons, there wouldn't be duty roulettes with bonuses.

In truth,

You lost me at: "In truth" ...

[Velo_Vandore]

Honestly the simple solution would be to put the ring around the party during cut scenes ( like the start of every dungeon) but allow us to switch jobs. If I could do a crafting item or two while someone else watches a CS then I wouldn't feel like I was wasting my time. The CS could end, everyone switches back to their job, ring fades, game on. Is it perfect, no, but it's better then nothing.

Concern would be that most players would simply stop playing CM and Prae. Then the first timer has no way to complete the run at all, even if he doesn't care about the cutscenes either. A massive amount of players do the CM and Prae run's for the bonus tomes - remove the time efficiency and you get dead content / new players unable to progress.

EDIT:

Or put some kind of minigame while we're waiting in the ring!

Ok, that would actually be a cool incentive ^^ Nice suggestion

[Niwashi]

But wait, they did mention it on its inception, in the patch notes.

Yes, they pointed out the existence of Party Finder. They also pointed out that the reason Duty Roulette exists is for new players to be able to see the story. New Players are SUPPOSED to be using Duty Finder. That's why Roulette was put there. That's why their quests explicitly tell them "Use Duty Finder to enter <instance>".

Yet scores of inconsiderate jerks still keep trying to tell new players that they shouldn't be in DF because their desire to actually see the story slows down the experienced players' ability to get rewards for helping them see the story. That's what the Duty Roulette rewards are for. They are explicitly rewarding people for helping newcomers see the story. I really think SE should simply have required everyone using Roulette to watch the cutscenes, and they lose out on their Roulette rewards if they don't.

[Velo_Vandore]

There is a simple fix : On duty, make people unable to skip the cutscene until all party member did not click on skip.
This way, they can rage all they want, they can't know witch one is watching cutscene.

You'll be kicked for not skipping, with some other reason stated. No matter how many people report such occurrences it will still happen all day long. Or, people won't bother. Most people are not there to help the new player have a nice first experience. They are there because the tomes rewarded for a roulette run are time efficient / easy. If the encounter takes a certain amount of time the bonus tomes are no longer an incentive so people don't bother. Then the new player can't get a group.

However, they could reward massive tomes bonus to make even really long runs efficient for tome farming. But would the scenes be vote skippable in this case? If yes, people will pressure the player to skip, vote kick the new player, or some other miss-use of the system. If no, a high number of runs will be everyone on their repeat run with no new player present, and still having to watch scenes which would be a unnecessarily boring situation for everyone.

EDIT: sorry if a lot of my responses are skeptical. I just think it's important to be realistic that the solution doesn't have a quick fix, or simple fix. I have made my own suggestion in a previous post, but I'm sure there are problems with that idea too :P

Also, when considering solutions people often think of one group as the baddies and one group as the goodies, and that to punish the baddies is the solution. I used to think that way, but after reading strong debate on this topic I now believe this was a closed minded view.

Slowing down for other players is nice! Certainly! I practice and encourage it wholeheartedly ♥ But players who are trying to get geared up to run the latest content with their friends before nerf, who maybe only have a couple hours to play a night and don't have time to watch every cutscene and mentor the new player for each roulette run are not bad people or selfish. If they drop from the group with the new player, I have no hard feelings for them. If they are rude to other players and try to pressure the new guy to hurry up / skip scenes etc that he's not comfortable with however, I can't get behind that.

[Axiom]

Thanks everyone for working on making this issue an issue. Even though it has been since the game came out, we need to keep at it until the devs find a solution. There are many out there as you have all suggested.

I got a lot of hate in the first couple of pages so it's really refreshing to see that lots of people on here are being supportive and can sympathise with the issue. It is a very serious one, otherwise we wouldn't have this giant debate going on.