WARRIOR STATS ALLOCATION

[kukurumei]

There's never a point where more vit then you need... that few more points always make everyone happy.

[bokchoykn]

There's never a point where more vit then you need... that few more points always make everyone happy.

It's about opportunity cost. Excess VIT can be easily exchanged for STR. In many situations, particularly in the current end-game (T6-9), and the extra damage is more valuable than the extra HP.

sadly it looks like SE intented to make only one build viable.
With fending accessories you have VIT and Parry and no amount of STR will make it better option.
High STR will make better hate, dmg and slightly better parry (is it like +1% per every 40 str? i heard yes). But in the same time you have less hp pool for spike dmg (i dont trust healers so much ) and less often parry (because of lack of Parry accesories). Sadly. STR won't compensate it.

If im wrong please some link to calculating str/vit&parry

It's just the damage you're interested in. Hate is a joke in this game. Parry is a joke in this game. When dealt with properly (ie. Inner Beast), spike damage doesn't really go far beyond 6k on a Warrior. That's before considering Vengeance and Thrill. So, why do we need to allocate +30 Vitality and wear Fending Accessories to exceed 10,000 HP?

It's a little different for Paladins who don't scale as well with Strength and are most likely going to be taking Bahamut's Claws.

[kukurumei]

It's about opportunity cost. Excess VIT can be easily exchanged for STR. In many situations, particularly in the current end-game (T6-9), and the extra damage is more valuable than the extra HP.

The problem is with resets being so costly, are you a one trick pony or all around. There's always a situation where more vit is better, there isn't with more str.

The str is very minor compared to the vit need of being a tank.

It's just hard unless you run 24/7 with the same people, on the same content, with the same setup.

One/two strength/intel/dex pot from any of the dps, will easily beat your entire run of +30str as oppose to 30vit. The damage potential compare to a pld is a nice boast for wars, but in the end they aren't going to be anywhere near a full DPS

[bokchoykn]

The problem is with resets being so costly, are you a one trick pony or all around. There's always a situation where more vit is better, there isn't with more str.

The str is very minor compared to the vit need of being a tank.

It's just hard unless you run 24/7 with the same people, on the same content, with the same setup.

One/two strength/intel/dex pot from any of the dps, will easily beat your entire run of +30str as oppose to 30vit. The damage potential compare to a pld is a nice boast for wars, but in the end they aren't going to be anywhere near a full DPS

Okay, what kind of content are we talking about here? And what level of intensity are we playing at? Because I'm talking about end-game min-maxing to improve your group's capacity to kill bosses and increasing the group's margins of error.

According to my understanding of my class, the bosses in the game, and just general math, an OT Warrior is given way more Vitality than he actually requires to safely withstand any burst damage he can be dealt. The best thing a Warrior can do to shed VIT for STR is to use STR accessories and/or change his attributes. I've done both. The +30 STR will be permanent. If I ever need more VIT, I equip VIT accessories.

One/two strength/intel/dex pot from any of the dps, will easily beat your entire run of +30str as oppose to 30vit. The damage potential compare to a pld is a nice boast for wars, but in the end they aren't going to be anywhere near a full DPS

84 Strength for 15s every 5 minutes is equivalent to 4.2 Strength on average. Seeing as 4.2 is a lower number than 30, no it does not "easily beat" it.

And that's not to say that someone specced +30 STR can't drink Strength potions.

[kukurumei]

Okay, what kind of content are we talking about here? And what level of intensity are we playing at? Because I'm talking about end-game min-maxing to improve your group's capacity to kill bosses and increasing the group's margins of error.

That's a pointless argument because the level is purely on the basis of the formation of the group. SE has designed almost any and every content to scale to epic levels based on mechanics of the fight, by using stacks, debuffs, any and other combinations of factors.

Something as simple as twintainia(simple now anyway) still kills groups with 15% echo on top of i100 tank gear simply because the group maybe a little off.

Or titan will and will not kill simple because of who has how many stacks, vs healers reactions

Vit helps a tank, Always does, always will. Because SE likes bursty mechanics.

Very little mechanics (or almost none) helps with a bit of extra damage from the tank/healer. Almost all content SE has created is with the intent that "gcd is what limits people, not their stats" on the dps end. Almost every burst mechanics in the game is given by simply having 8 members attack twice (cleric stance, sword oath, or whatever not really a matter) or 3 times to "kill it".

this is again proven by the echo, where even if you have 25% echo, the GCD limits the require power to "beat" an add phase, and is bypassed by having more members (alive) hitting it.

[bokchoykn]

Very little mechanics (or almost none) helps with a bit of extra damage from the tank/healer. Almost all content SE has created is with the intent that "gcd is what limits people, not their stats" on the dps end. Almost every burst mechanics in the game is given by simply having 8 members attack twice (cleric stance, sword oath, or whatever not really a matter) or 3 times to "kill it".

Are we playing the same game? Because, if you're talking about the same game that I'm playing, that is the most ignorant thing I've ever read.

No, there is no fight in the game where DPS races are "you and your buddies must each hit this thingy 2 or 3 times to kill it!". Enemies actually have HP totals. Damage output is determined by raw stats. Everybody, including the tanks, contributes to these DPS races.

You, like many other tanks, have no concept of damage output and the value it provides to your group. There are many DPS races in the game. Even if the DPS race quota can be met, there is still tremendous value in further increasing your DPS. Twintania and Titan EX, the two fights that you used in your examples, are fights that are often decided by sheer DPS output.

Like I said many times before, HP gains are subject to diminishing returns. How much damage will a boss deal to you with its most bursty damage attack plus an auto-attack?

Before SCoB, Twintania can deal a maximum of 9000 to a Warrior if he fails to Inner Beast or pop a cooldown, and the healers all fail to Virus, Eye for an Eye, Stoneskin or Adlo. This is a worst case scenario that should not happen with decent players who have any understanding of how Death Sentence works. 9.0k is the number. If I use cooldowns effectively, which I trust myself to do, the number becomes closer to 7k. In +30 Strength and full Strength Accessories, I have 10.5k HP (w/ echo). We've had this fight on farm status since I had 8k HP.

[kukurumei]

Are we playing the same game? Because, if you're talking about the same game that I'm playing, that is the most ignorant thing I've ever read.

No, there is no fight in the game where DPS races are "you and your buddies must each hit this thingy 2 or 3 times to kill it!". Enemies actually have HP totals. Damage output is determined by raw stats. Everybody, including the tanks, contributes to these DPS races.

You, like many other tanks, have no concept of damage output and the value it provides to your group. There are many DPS races in the game. Even if the DPS race quota can be met, there is still tremendous value in further increasing your DPS. Twintania and Titan EX, the two fights that you used in your examples, are fights that are often decided by sheer DPS output.

Like I said many times before, HP gains are subject to diminishing returns. How much damage will a boss deal to you with its most bursty damage attack plus an auto-attack?

Before SCoB, Twintania can deal a maximum of 9000 to a Warrior if he fails to Inner Beast or pop a cooldown, and the healers all fail to Virus, Eye for an Eye, Stoneskin or Adlo. This is a worst case scenario that should not happen with decent players who have any understanding of how Death Sentence works. 9.0k is the number. If I use cooldowns effectively, which I trust myself to do, the number becomes closer to 7k. In +30 Strength and full Strength Accessories, I have 10.5k HP (w/ echo). We've had this fight on farm status since I had 8k HP.

elistst thinking that's ultimately proven wrong when they rage quit because people can't keep up or them or they can't keep up with peoples pace.

9000 hit DS heh...riiighhht. perfect in an ideological world.


All that str gives you is making healers life miserable. Wars are one of the more fragile tanks in this respect an you're asking them to even sheathe that with some str.

Next time be l33t and go MRD....seriously you can hit upto 1600 damage, and tank! great deal!

Even the almighty T8 is trounced by the appearance of a mnk team that killed it in 8minutes. Ya wars really help? just get a mnk.

Vit is vit is vit. Every class would want to have more vit if possible, and the class that needs it the most you're saying don't do it? Next time you blame the healer for your death and group wipe, maybe it wasn't the healer who was 1 second late in lustre or 2 seconds late in cure2, maybe it was your pathetic HP pools that healers can't even multitask with.

I guess it's great way to form statics for str wars. Scare off every healer that looks at you.

[SeraviEdalborez]

The problem is with resets being so costly, are you a one trick pony or all around. There's always a situation where more vit is better, there isn't with more str.

This just in, 10k GC seals is super-costly.

I'll ask: Have YOU tried STR spec? For more than 5 minutes? It's not some "for fun" myth or even just a super min-maxer's thing. It's not difficult for healers unless your healers are terrible anyways.

Extra DPS is extra DPS no matter what the source, be it a DRG pumping more damage, a SCH throwing on cleric dots, or a WAR milking all the damage they can while not impairing the group's success rate.