Common sense when positioning monsters

[MeiUshu]

You all sound as if you have experience of these roles but have forgotten what it's like to be learning the ropes. As a'noob' with a tank role I've listened to the huffing and puffing during dungeon levels because I misjudged my role. Did you get your roles right first time or has it been a learning experience too? I've had one guy say if I don't know how to grab hate from a group I shouldn't have spec'd a tank. It sounds like something any of you here would say. If you want to be elitist put some kind of dumb entrance exam in your FC, take it seriously to the point of being anally retentive. Kill the joy. How about offering guidance to these people instead of talking like their actions are oh so tedious. Part of the challenge of these games is in learning how to get on with others. Sometimes you mmorpg vets need to get over yourselves and remember where you started. The FF world is full of mixed levels and abilities and most things, by the way, only become common sense with practise.

There is a tank lvl 38ish that goes around I met him twice once in Qarn and once in that place where ants are (never know the name in english), we spend something like 40mn in the first boss, read that 40mn before me and BLM managed to kill that thing, why would you ask ?..the tank kept runing in circle hitting now and then the target never run to pad when affected by doom even if told, read that IN CIRCLE, meaning my dps output was seriously compromised and BLM was stealing hate from tank thus was runing like mad, we explained to him in turn what NOT TO do, even the DRG that started the dungeon with us did say it then left disgusted. You are asking people to give advice we did we sticked with him for a long long time, we said it over and over again but before the second boss and seen he was still doing the same, he was killing the heads before they were on platforms, so we stood there watching, we told him but nothing, ant one point, we had no choice but to kick him and I HATE DOING THAT. Was it a troll? maybe, although I dont know, we tried in various languages, nothing changed...you really think is always a lack of explanation? had it only attempted to change something in his waysor COMMUNICATE we would be standing behind him all the way...there was no answers, no words, on the contrary he was applauding me and BLM for doing HIS job...you really think there isnt anything to say ? Are all tank like that ? no... but whether you like it or not there are more and more like that, some dont know, and others plain dont care. we met this boss again with the ants, this time he left after the first two ants...he was runign in circles ..lol

I am a Monk, you hink I can hit runing targets ?

your anger is justified but only to a point.

Mei

[Ashkendor]

words were here

That sounds... horrifying. Kudos to you for sticking with it and trying to help.

It's funny, playing a DRG made me a lot more sensitive to fiddly positioning issues. I realize now that even the slightest movement can put your melee DPS off the flank/rear and make them a lot less effective.

[Matt_Stubbs]

Well said. My main is a tank, and I love doing it. I\\'m still learning though, and always welcome criticism from others. I recently just learned that positioning is crucial for the others. I\\'ve been watching YouTube videos and reading these forums for tips and it\\'s helped so much. I started off tanking not knowing anything. I had no idea what my role was and I learned through people complaining. I\\'m no expert, but reading all these posts help.

[Dano]

these tanks dont play DPS classes/jobs and therefore have no idea DPSes require positioning to do damage.

[Noxifer]

these tanks dont play DPS classes/jobs and therefore have no idea DPSes require positioning to do damage.

You're right. Not having a class means you're a lot less aware of what that class requires to perform well. In my first dungeons (first runs and re-runs of the first four) I had really no clue about the positioning of things, other than to try to keep aoes away from the other people. Mostly I played with my friend who favours THM/BLM, and I had levelled up CNJ enough to get protect and raise, so I knew about the annoyance of interrupted castings. But usually I'd just run straight through the mob during cone aoes and then tank it from there. Sometimes I used strafe+forward to rotate the mob 90 degrees instead of 180. No one ever said anything to me about it, though, so I had no idea that I should do it any other way.

I think it was in a fate that I first saw someone else tank and noticed how they moved back to their original position after aoe execution, and thought that was a nifty way to avoid forcing mages to move. It wasn't until WAY later that I found out about the importance of positioning for melee dps classes. By that time, I was already used to keeping the mob relatively static. But I could have started doing that a lot earlier if just someone/anyone had pointed it out to me at the start ^^; Sadly, it seems many people think that the proper way to give advice is to yell "wtf are you doing" or similarly informative things when you manage to screw something up.

[wicked-one]

There might have been a surge of pseudo tanks. My term for tanks that are only leveling tank/tanking to where they can build myth for their dps classes. They probably aren't career tanks.

Jeah, i see a lot of them lately which don´t know their class... not limited to tanks... and not lately ^^

[Drtoxicmedica]

And this is why I firmly believe you should play at least dungeon level will one of each major class. Melee, ranged, healer, and tank.
Having started off as a DRG I always found it annoying when the mobs where moved all over the place. But after playing WAR ( which is now main) I realize that if a tank is new I should be a little bit more patient. Once your at brayflox tho all bets are off.

[TouchandFeel]

If you are new to a dungeon, a role, or to the MMO genre in general, don't be afraid to let people know. Sure you'll get jerks that drop out and stuff like that, but better to get that out of the way upfront instead of waiting until you do something they consider wrong and have them flip out even more and then drop. Simply jerks will be jerks no matter what, but assuming that everyone is a jerk and won't be patient or helpful is not the way to go. There are many players out there that will be patient and helpful, as long as you don't get all defensive or refuse to listen.

Don't expect to be super elite and the best tank, or whatever role, right off the bat, because guess what your not going to be. You'll need to learn and become comfortable with all the mechanics and nuances of your role and job, and the only way your going to do that is through playing it and *shudder* making mistakes.
On the other hand, people should realize that some people may be new or not familiar with things in the game and that a simple politely phrased suggestion will often yield better results and save more time than raging like a baby that needs its diaper changed.

As far as mobs and positioning, you pretty much always want to face the mobs away from the rest of the party. This if for two reasons, first most mobs that have AoE attacks have forward facing cones, so that way their attacks will be pointed away from the rest of the group and they will not have to stop what they are doing and move out of the way, second because the melee dps do more damage when attacking an enemy from behind and the sides.
The easiest way to do this that works with most trash pulls is to run towards the group and shield lob. They will agro and move towards you. Run through them and then immediately turn around so that you are now facing them and the rest of your party. The pack of enemies should now be between you and the rest of your party with them all facing towards you and with their backs to the rest of the party. If you can, try using flash while your are running through them to help get initial group agro.
If there are ranged enemies in the group run to them when you run through the others and the melee enemies will follow you. If the ranged enemies are near other enemies that you don't want to agro, then run back until the ranged enemies begin to follow and then once they are in a safe spot to engage, turn and charge them. The best way to get ranged enemies to follow you is to break line of sight by hiding behind something or turning a corner, this is especially useful with all the ranged enemies in Darkhold.

Don't run around doing circles around enemies or other such nonsense, it doesn't make the enemies miss you any more and all it does is make it harder for the dps to do their job. Every move that a tank makes should have a good reason behind it (positioning enemies or avoiding an AoE) and for the most part you want to stay in one spot as best as possible. You can also dodge AoE's without turning or moving a mob fairly easily. As soon as the telegraphed floor marker appears move out of it and as soon as it disappears move back, even if it appears that the attack has not gone off yet. Once the telegraph marker is gone, who the attack is going to hit has already been registered by the server. This way you are able to move back into position while the enemy is doing the attack animation and they end up not moving or turning.

The more familiar you become with different enemies and the different dungeons, the more familiar you'll become with how to position them and where to do so.

[Bornruffian1]

As someone who was new to MMOs and tanking - There's a lot of great advice in this ^ comment.

[Sakasa]

I have to say sometimes though as a dps you are on your own stone vigil is one of those type of places because that breath weapons and even the trash aoes positioning is really the least thing the tank needs to worry about besides getting out of the way themselves (which the dragon breaths having a cast bar I think is a bit of a joke as there is no way specifically you can avoid taking the damage if your the target). While it is sometimes frustrating when I dps as well sometimes, you just have to trust the tank knows something just like they have to trust the healer to make sure they don't flatline. But for new tanks vigil is the first real taste of stay out of the fire because the level cap makes sure you won't survive multiple aoes with the auto attacks right after.