Common sense when positioning monsters

[Wadoka]

...Also, most guides are focusing on stats, rotations and so forth. But it is hard (well I never saw one) to find one that talks about basic features such as positioning mobs, waiting to dps or whatever. They all assume that the player already knows the basics which is not really true.

This is Truth. I didn't learn about mob/enemy position on the job. I was semi-intelligent and came to the forum first. That's where I learned it was my responsibility to control which way the mob/enemy faced, and where to place them in a fight.

How many people come to th4e forums before they begin having problems? How many people accept in-game criticism? Who *gives* good in-game criticism during an instanced battle or duty?

[Viridiana]

Who *gives* good in-game criticism during an instanced battle or duty?

I try to, but, then, I have to balance all of it around the fact that I'm really sarcastic by nature, so I have to tone it way down and/or add smilies. >_>

[JonBigwood]

Hello. If the tank is not positioning well a boss or mob, you can tell him, he might not have noticed the problem or be new at the place.

In CT some people remind the tank in jokes not to put the Valefor's tail looking to the group, just in case the tank is new. If the tank says he is new the other tank can explain a bit too. Many CT problems are caused by lack of communication.

In low level dungeons it may well be the tank is new or he is too busy trying to survive and is concentrating in other more urgent things (from his point of view) and forgets to place the boss where he can be well attacked by melee DPS or will not throw an attack to the group.

A quick ask can make him do it right (if he manages to read the chat log before a wipe...lol)

The more exp somebody has in a place, the more aware to every aspect of the fight he will be, the better he will place the boss, knows his attacks, he can anticipate where the adds are going to spawn and place the boss in advance, etc.

When things go south problems usually accumulate. Normally it's not just the tank has placed the boss badly, he probably is in low health and the rest of the party too, he might be worried about losing hate to an add, the healer is overloaded with work, casters are moving around avoiding attacks and can't cast well, etc.

[Maxidelta]

Also, what's with tanks lately wanting to play Merry-Go-Round with the mob? It's really annoying when the tank circles around the mob like 5-6 times where there isn't even a red area to dodge.

Maybe they think it ups their dodge rate? Was hilarious when I thought that in FFXI .

I find it no different than the dps who demand you go faster to the point they believe they should pull new mobs for you.

Some people just don't care about what others want and will shoot themselves in the foot because of it.

Also it can be scary when DPS dont give you time to adjust the monsters to a safe and convenient location (and then wonder why all the monsters suddenly ping pong everywhere).

Most of the time they might genuinely not know much about tanking so wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of advice.

[Killabye]

I'm horrible at this but I try and over pull so I can get better so I'm on the brink of death and have to dodge aoes. Idc though lol. Basic stuff like pulling out of dots or whatever sure but positioning more than two enemies? Not my problem

[Wintersandman]

I am sorry but this thread makes me cringe a little bit as a tank, dps, and a healer.

I always follow a general rule to face away from the group. Almost everything has a frontal attack why would you face that towards anyone especially with it's back against a wall. Some fights may call for this but they are extremely rare. So why not have the boss etc, positioned to have your healers/dps on flank or rear.

Also as tanks we can't position for every possible/potential aoe. DPS will have to get creative, and adjust accordingly. As a Dragoon I was able to find that the range of being on the flank/rear of enemies wasn't an exact science. There was all sorts of wiggle room to being able to get impulse drive or heavy thrust off. I would ask the tank to move or re-position, then yell at the tank to re-position but it wouldn't happen. So I would either steal threat intentionally or just suck it up.

As a healer when I watch the portrayed behaviors... they become a dead tank. Depending on the dungeon I will have an easier time healing two dps then a dumb tank and two dps due to bad positioning or merry go round behaviors. In Dzemael Darkhold I had a tank who wasn't tanking in the light. The dps followed me and waited for him to die then when everything came our direction we burned it down.

But lastly it isn't safe to assume that tanks know how to tank every fight. I screwed up IG's because I didn't know any better and no one cares to explain anything in CT. Sometimes a little guidance goes a long way.

[TouchandFeel]

If you are new to a dungeon, a role, or to the MMO genre in general, don't be afraid to let people know. Sure you'll get jerks that drop out and stuff like that, but better to get that out of the way upfront instead of waiting until you do something they consider wrong and have them flip out even more and then drop. Simply jerks will be jerks no matter what, but assuming that everyone is a jerk and won't be patient or helpful is not the way to go. There are many players out there that will be patient and helpful, as long as you don't get all defensive or refuse to listen.

Don't expect to be super elite and the best tank, or whatever role, right off the bat, because guess what your not going to be. You'll need to learn and become comfortable with all the mechanics and nuances of your role and job, and the only way your going to do that is through playing it and *shudder* making mistakes.
On the other hand, people should realize that some people may be new or not familiar with things in the game and that a simple politely phrased suggestion will often yield better results and save more time than raging like a baby that needs its diaper changed.

As far as mobs and positioning, you pretty much always want to face the mobs away from the rest of the party. This if for two reasons, first most mobs that have AoE attacks have forward facing cones, so that way their attacks will be pointed away from the rest of the group and they will not have to stop what they are doing and move out of the way, second because the melee dps do more damage when attacking an enemy from behind and the sides.
The easiest way to do this that works with most trash pulls is to run towards the group and shield lob. They will agro and move towards you. Run through them and then immediately turn around so that you are now facing them and the rest of your party. The pack of enemies should now be between you and the rest of your party with them all facing towards you and with their backs to the rest of the party. If you can, try using flash while your are running through them to help get initial group agro.
If there are ranged enemies in the group run to them when you run through the others and the melee enemies will follow you. If the ranged enemies are near other enemies that you don't want to agro, then run back until the ranged enemies begin to follow and then once they are in a safe spot to engage, turn and charge them. The best way to get ranged enemies to follow you is to break line of sight by hiding behind something or turning a corner, this is especially useful with all the ranged enemies in Darkhold.

Don't run around doing circles around enemies or other such nonsense, it doesn't make the enemies miss you any more and all it does is make it harder for the dps to do their job. Every move that a tank makes should have a good reason behind it (positioning enemies or avoiding an AoE) and for the most part you want to stay in one spot as best as possible. You can also dodge AoE's without turning or moving a mob fairly easily. As soon as the telegraphed floor marker appears move out of it and as soon as it disappears move back, even if it appears that the attack has not gone off yet. Once the telegraph marker is gone, who the attack is going to hit has already been registered by the server. This way you are able to move back into position while the enemy is doing the attack animation and they end up not moving or turning.

The more familiar you become with different enemies and the different dungeons, the more familiar you'll become with how to position them and where to do so.

[Bornruffian1]

As someone who was new to MMOs and tanking - There's a lot of great advice in this ^ comment.

[Sakasa]

I have to say sometimes though as a dps you are on your own stone vigil is one of those type of places because that breath weapons and even the trash aoes positioning is really the least thing the tank needs to worry about besides getting out of the way themselves (which the dragon breaths having a cast bar I think is a bit of a joke as there is no way specifically you can avoid taking the damage if your the target). While it is sometimes frustrating when I dps as well sometimes, you just have to trust the tank knows something just like they have to trust the healer to make sure they don't flatline. But for new tanks vigil is the first real taste of stay out of the fire because the level cap makes sure you won't survive multiple aoes with the auto attacks right after.