mmorpg's review

[Preypacer]

Guys get a life.

So there's another bad review about FFXIV on the internet with one or two factual errors which don't necessarily even impact on anything at all regarding the overall impression of the game.

Welcome to ten months ago.

So you've completely run out of anything resembling a valid or useful response to the topic, so you resort to dismissal tactics and ad-hominems.

Since you've obviously long-since exhausted yourself of anything resembling an honest rebuttal to any point raised in this thread, will you be taking your leave from the thread along with Synthesis? Now would be a good time, I think. Or are ya gonna stick around and troll some more, maybe dig that hole of dishonesty a little deeper for yourself?

[Naqaj]

People are discussing a very valid and very relevant issue regarding a very unprofessional reviewer publishing a very dubious review on a high profile website.

Whether that review is dubious or that reviewer is unprofessional is just as much a matter of opinion as the state of the game itself, as the very existance of this thread shows. Once the discussion no longer is about actually talking to each, but simply discarding any opposing views as invalid while stubbornly insisting to be in possesion of the only truth, it becomes a farce that should not be taken seriously.

Your closing assertion notwithstanding - as that is your opinion, nothing more (it also hasn't stopped you from joining the fray throughout the thread - hypocrisy?) - this is an issue that does bear discussion. MMORPG.com's review is not posted by some random blogger on some random blogspot site somewhere. It's an official review posted on a high traffic website.

I have not excluded myself from my assertion of this discussion, so I see no base for you accusing me of hypocrisy. And yes, like many other reviews that concluded in calling XIV a rather bad game, this one was also on a high traffic MMO website. And just like with those other reviews, the rabid fanboys are out to defend their little game, as they should. That's a fanboys obligation, after all.

If you find it to be a waste of your time, however, well... nothing's stopping you from ducking out and moving on, now is it?

Wasting time is just as valid a reason to come here as is pretending to have meaningful discussions about game reviews.

[giftforce]

So you've completely run out of anything resembling a valid or useful response to the topic, so you resort to dismissal tactics and ad-hominems.

Since you've obviously long-since exhausted yourself of anything resembling an honest rebuttal to any point raised in this thread, will you be taking your leave from the thread along with Synthesis? Now would be a good time, I think. Or are ya gonna stick around and troll some more, maybe dig that hole of dishonesty a little deeper for yourself?

Well I'm all for championing a hopeless cause, but I'm pretty sure you can't usher in a new era of journalistic integrity. So you might as well just take consolation in the fact that the overall impression that anyone reading the review will get is a close enough approximation to reality. Therefore, the errors don't really matter.

The errors fall within an acceptable range of uncertainty, as it were.

And by the way, I wasn't trying to justify the reviewer's errors, I was just trying to offer you a coping strategy to stop you from going insane. But obviously it doesn't seem to be working. (And please don't bother pointing out my ad hominems, I am in fact quite aware of them, okay? So spare me your latin, know-it-all condescension).

[Preypacer]

Whether that review is dubious or that reviewer is unprofessional is just as much a matter of opinion as the state of the game itself, as the very existance of this thread shows.

Really. So referring to a major change to the game as merely "rumored" is only so "in someone's opinion"? No. It's misinformation.

Demonstrating that they barely played beyond the opening cinematics, but yet opining on the storyline overall anyway isn't dubious or disingenuous?

Posting the review 4 days before the first of a series of major, game-changing updates that would render many of the review points invalid isn't dubious or, at the least, highly irresponsible?

Hell, I don't need to go down each point. They've all been well described and well discussed. The issues raised with that review and the questions raised about the integrity of the reviewer have nothing to do with "opinion".

I have not excluded myself from my assertion of this discussion, so I see no base for you accusing me of hypocrisy. And yes, like many other reviews that concluded in calling XIV a rather bad game, this one was also on a high traffic MMO website. And just like with those other reviews, the rabid fanboys are out to defend their little game, as they should. That's a fanboys obligation, after all.

Hypocrisy had a ? after it. It was a question. Not a statement.

With the rest of your post... yet again... someone ignoring the specific points raised about the review and trying to distort it into being about "fanboys upset about a poor review".

Once more... and please try to follow along and comprehend this... No one is upset that the game got a poor review. No one is arguing that it deserves a better review. No one is arguing that the game isn't in bad shape and needs work. No one is claiming that a low score for the game at this time is unjustified.

Trying to argue any one of those things, or anything in the same vein is absolutely useless because it's not what anyone is taking issue with. There are no "fanboys defending their little game". There are, however, people like yourself doing their damndest to twist and distort what *is* being said into something that *isn't*. Doing so at this point, with the amount of times the case has been made and repeated, is beyond defensible. It's outright willful ignorance.

There are people quite accurately and very intelligently addressing issues with a suspiciously timed "review" containing factual errors, hyperbole and commentary that's dubious at best, given the amount of time the reviewer apparently spent in the game.

Continuing to repeat the cop-out of "oh the fanboys are upset about their game getting a poor review" is not clever nor compelling. It's intellectual dishonesty at its most blatant.

Wasting time is just as valid a reason to come here as is pretending to have meaningful discussions about game reviews.

Some of us are having a meaningful discussion about something; a poorly researched, reviewed and published review from a high-profile website. The issues at hand are well represented and detailed, in black and white, over numerous thread pages. That you choose to remain ignorant of that is your problem, no one else's.

Regardless, argument from ignorance (willful or otherwise) is not a valid debate tactic.

Perhaps having irresponsibly false information being spread for a game you play and enjoy is no problem for you. It is for others.

Further, if you find this thread bothersome... you do not have to participate. No one's putting a gun to your head forcing you to respond. You ostensibly don't agree with, nor care about the issue being discussed. So, outside of trolling, why are you sticking around?

[Naqaj]

Hypocrisy had a ? after it. It was a question. Not a statement.

Haha, of course it was a question. An innocent, honest question. How rude of me to assume anything else. One could think this was the internet.

[Krausus]

True, Guildleves aren't quests. Guildleves wish they were quests. The truth is, they were the only form of content, for the most part, that the game released with. So you can forgive people for thinking of them as quests. In fact, I'm sure SE themselves have called guildleves a questing system at some point. Just because players abuse them as a quick form of levelling doesnt mean they aren't quests.

For all we know the changes coming in patch 1.18 could turn out to be totally non-functional. I'm certainly not holding my breath.

People who aren't die-hard fans aren't going to nitpick her every word like you are anyway. They are just going to glance over the article and take in the general gist of what it's saying. And generally speaking you can't fault the article.

Regardless if you want to call them quests or not, every MMO has pretty much the same leveling system, SE just cut out all the running from quest hub to quest hub.

[Ichi]

Seriously... Have people given up on even trying to pretend to follow what people are actually discussing in this thread anymore?

It has nothing to do with subjective opinions on the game.

There are over 30 pages of thread after thread after thread pointing out and discussing the same exact specific issues over and over... incorrect information, suspicious timing of the review, exaggerations, etc. etc. etc.

None of it has anything to do with people having an issue with the reviewer's "subjective opinions" on the game.

So my point remains valid. I am right to distrust reviews of products who's enjoyability is a factor of personal perspective. I was merely trying to war people of what it is they are actually reading, no reason to jump down my throat. Especially when im not invalidating your point.

[chime85]

Ahah. MMORPG.com has their collective panties in a bunch about receiving criticism on this ill-advised review, it seems



Have fun checking the thread and see if I wrote anything that could be indentified as trolling
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cf.../thread/321387

Not only they lack integrity in their review, but they also lack the nercessary integrity to accept the criticism coming with it.

Oh you public menace!!!! Loved every word you posted on that page

Kimi x

[Shipp]

You see the reviewer's point in asserting something that's clearly been confirmed as being "rumored"? What point is there in that?

You see the reviewer's point in including UI as part of the game's graphics? What point is there in that? Most reviews I've read have UI/Interface as their own category. What point was there in this reviewer lumping it in with a category it doesn't belong in?

Semantics. I see the overall big picture the reviewer was trying to convey. I never said the article was well-written, and I've also said it's at a shoddy time. It's not however wrong, fundamentally. The game is still largely a pile of crap right now. Hopefully this changes tomorrow and in the following months.

You see the reviewer's point in giving an opinion on content they evidently never even got to or experienced? What point is there in that?

Care to share with us all these "points" that some of us - according to you - aren't "actually seeing"?

So you can just adamantly deny the obvious that the game is much better than it actually is? No thanks, don't feel like wasting my time going through the article on a play-by-play basis for you.

I'm genuinely curious to see how you can spin those things into anything but damning evidence of a poorly researched and written review by a less-than-credible reviewer.

Never said it was well-researched, well-written, or had a credible author. I said that many things the author said are correct. Even people who are completely against the author have admitted that a lot of the stuff said is true, but that it's going to be fixed.

Please do so without resorting to ad hominems (calling people fanboys, etc) or strawmen (making it about the score, etc).

The points have been brought up previously. Go look through the pages instead of asking for them to be repeated for you.

... because you know every non FF player who might decide to pick the game up now and what they would do?

I do know non-FF players AND FF players that left the game after a day. Do I know them all? No. Nobody needs to know them all. It was a generalization, and look at the population of this game if you need proof. How many players that were not previously FF fans are playing this game that you know of? I'm sure there are a few, but they're in the minority.

I think you should stick to speaking for yourself. You're unqualified to speak for anyone else... let alone a population of hypothetical people you couldn't possibly know or identify.

It's not hypothetical people, it's the people who are no longer playing FFXIV because it sucked at launch, still pretty much sucks now, just not as much, and hopefully will STOP sucking tomorrow.

The game has improved since launch. Whether it's "a lot", "a little", "plenty" or "not enough" is entirely subjective and depends on what a given individual thinks of it.

And obviously the majority of people don't find it substantial enough of a change to start playing again, or care about the game at all. Just because YOU might think a lot has changed doesn't mean most people do. If most people did, there wouldn't be the population problem that there is. Even SE doesn't think it's improved substantially, hence why it hasn't launched for the PS3.

I find it funny how those still attempting to make a strong argument for the review at this point are repeatedly resorting to either strawmen, conjecture or ad hominems. Fewer and fewer are actually even attempting to address the actual points that have been raised time and again now.

No, they've been brought up, you're just refusing to go back and read or acknowledge them. Nobody here is saying the reviewer is perfect. We're saying get over it, none of this incessant whining and going to another site to troll is doing any good, and it's actually making FFXIV players look worse.

So, your entire last paragraph is a non-argument. It's personal opinion wrapped up in conjecture and asserted as fact.

If only it was actually that easy to discredit someone. Sorry, but it's not.