Considering hanging up my shield due to high level haters.....

[dejavutwo]

snip...

I've only seen one person get truly yelled at for being new in any fight, and that was when the person joined a farm group expecting to get carried and end up wiping the group repeatedly. The community isn't nearly as toxic as the forums would lead you to believe, and most players are actually quite nice and at least moderately patient.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen any "GTFO noob" type comments in any DF/PF run.

[Zaiken]

Honestly, tanks have it WAY easier than every other class in practically every encounter in the game, especially main tanks.

That's not true, some fight for Tank is really stressful like Garuda Ex, Titan Ex, Off Tank for Levi Ex, Turn 4, etc. Everyone think Tank just stand there and Tank and Spank. But if they make a mistake, it a wipe and people get mad at them. Grabbing add in Titan Ex and Levi Ex is also a bit tricky. Primal Fight like Levi Ex and Titan Ex where they can't make any mistake, For Levi Ex one wrong Dodge they eat the sea and it all over. Not hallow ground at the right time and blow themself up. For Titan Ex, eating a landslide, unexpected mountain burst, etc.

[Velo_Vandore]

Hey April .(^_^)b

When I hit lvl50, I was so excited to start playing end game, but soon got turned off by such focus on progress, and so few runs being what I would consider fun. My friend stopped playing because there was so much drama in the duty finder, and I considered quitting too. For a while I just felt like there's no way I'm going in duty finder and being rushed through or shouted at, over and over, only to get rushed and shouted at in the next dungeon.

I dont understand why people are so entitled that they refuse to form their own learning parties and play at the pace of people who are like minded...

Ronin, I hear ya, but I can tell you from experience it's simply not that easy. If every casual player was using the party finder we'd be sorted, but in reality next to none are. Several times I've waited over three hours for a party (stating slow and easy, newcomers welcome, cutscenes) with little to no interest. After hitting lvl50, being unwilling to use duty finder and conform to the "hurry up" playstyle, I found my progress was almost completely thwarted!

At this point I'm certain most players in a similar position, decide they will change their outlook on the game - i.e. if you can't beat them, join them. Many others I know will decide end game can wait, and they'll start crafting or leveling alt classes / characters. I wasn't willing to accept this fate just yet as I was super hyped to play the end game (btw, I just reached coil T1 finally this week and am so excited to get in there soon!), but I simply wanted to be able to play in certain way - not having to skip scenes, exploring additional area's, me or others being allowed to make mistakes without reprimand or guilt-trips. I think this is not an uncommon wish for many players, but the issue is bringing them together without someone being present who wants to farm for tomes / gear.

It can not be said that I haven't tried to bring such groups together. I've approached many casual linkshells (there are loads), but they are all small, and often with a great variety in lvl, so forming groups for high end content is highly unlikely to happen regularly. In these groups, often the players will log on and not be able to get a full group so they'll pick up a couple on duty finder - then they either conform and rush through or they force others to slow down, which defeats the purpose. So I reached out on the server forum to find like minded players. I found some great people (including ArpilNz) and we formed a linkshell with the sole purpose of gathering players who are happy / considerate to slower players, who want to watch scenes, explore the dungeon, or may make mistakes. We've got 63 members (a few are alts) and things are much better - I certainly don't feel like I want to quit the game now, but we people are different levels, different timezones, etc and since we're casual, people aren't committed to organised runs every night (nor should they be). So, it can still be very difficult to organize end game runs.

For a hardcore group (even a very small one) that plays every night with the same players, it's easy to progress outside of the duty finder, but for casual groups it's really not. You end up playing the early dungeons over and over, which is great, but not entirely fulfilling. I have a number of HM instances I've been waiting to run with the linkshell / free company or a party finder group, but that's the thing - a lot of time is just waiting. People get near 50 and decide to switch class for a while. People are busy doing other things. People don't log on for a while. Of course I don't blame them, and want them to play how they want to play. I'm not going to pressure them. So I'm left with a choice - duty finder half the time or very very very slow progress.

While I honestly sympathize with those in DF who want to get the encounter done, I'm not gonna sacrifice my own enjoyment for them, and won't escuse them for being rude to me if they don't get their way. The old argument is 7/8 want to speedrun, but I bet 99/100 would love to join duty finder for a casual / stress free run if it wasn't dominated by speedrunners and bullies, so they simply opt out. I use the duty finder and quite often will slow the group down by watching scenes, making mistakes, asking for smaller pulls or simply not keeping up. Am I impacting their enjoyment - yes, and I'm sorry for that. I wish the devs wold implement a cutscenes ON/OFF option, or casual players would use the party finder more, but as it stands I don't have another option, and I'm definitely not willing to do speedruns that I don't enjoy, and I'm definitely not willing to sit twiddling my thumbs so as not to disturb farming runs in duty finder.

Ultimately, while I do sympathise for those 7 / 8 trying to get their tomes ASAP (i'm sure some day I'll want to farm content too), it's currently FAR easier for them to get a farming group pre-formed than it is for me to get a slow and easy group pre-formed. So I'll keep using the DF and hope people will be considerate and patient. Often it ends in a kick, or vote abandon due to conflicting interests, but that's just how it is.

Conflicting interests are conflicting interests (not right and wrong), but rudeness is just wrong. If 7/8 want a speedrun, and one player is slowing the group down. Sure, if you're really not willing to make a sacrifice for them, you can politely explain the majority are farming, wish them luck getting a story run next time and vote kick. There's simply no need to pressure them, insult them or be rude.

[NinjaTaru72]

If they harass you in DF report them, and let them know your doing it. If it's DF no one should expect anything special from the pt. What you get is what you work with.

If it's pf, and it's your pf, kick them. If it's someone else's.... Well that's up to the. Leader. Being their party, if they want request people to have watched youtibe/know everything before hand them don't join them.

[Velo_Vandore]

If they harass you in DF report them, and let them know your doing it. If it's DF no one should expect anything special from the pt. What you get is what you work with.

If it's pf, and it's your pf, kick them. If it's someone else's.... Well that's up to the. Leader. Being their party, if they want request people to have watched youtibe/know everything before hand them don't join them.

I'll just point out SE have an FAQ in the game support menu that states they can't deal with disputes on things like gameplay strategy (I take this to mean players can vote kick if they want a speedrun and you don't, or can boot you for being "bad" at the mechanics) or watching cutscenes. However, I'd encourage reporting too for things like insults, harassment, rudeness.

I think if each player had the conviction to vote from their own heart rather than following what they think the group, or the bully wants, we wouldn't see so much intolerance for inexperience. I believe that many would prefer to accommodate new players and slow down, but stay silent when the new player is pressured in fear of being turned on as well. Or they simply presume there's no point being the only one to stick up for the noob when no-one will back them and nothing will change.

[Kyana]

so what a lot of people are saying is theyre too scared to run stuff day 1 until someone posts a video? thats what im seeing here lol i like to try everything available day 1 cause i always thought being one of the 1st non chicken shits was pretty cool.

Well, you know, some of these "chickens" have other priorities in life than playing a game and might get to new content later than others.
It's cool if you like exploring new stuff yourself, really.
But why are players who are further behind in content not allowed to do the same?
Why do people expect that everyone knows a fight in and out a few weeks after release?

new guy: "Hey everyone! I'm here for the first time."
party: "wtf, go watch a vid and read a guide noob" "kick him, not going to waste my time" "sorry guys but this isn't going to work, i'm out"

Honestly, tanks have it WAY easier than every other class in practically every encounter in the game, especially main tanks.

Honestly, no class is hard to play.
Just because tanks don't have to keep dodging attacks in every fight, doesn't make tanking easier than playing DD or healer.
What makes fights hard are player mistakes, like a tank with bad positioning, or a healer running out of MP or healing the wrong target, DDs not dealing enough dmg because they blew their cooldowns or taking too much dmg because they want to "finish a cast" and so on.
Tanks and healers just carry more responsibility than DDs, because you easily see when a tank or a healer messes up.
DD fails can only be seen when they die or (to some degree) if you run a parser.

[Azure_dragon-]

new guy: "Hey everyone! I'm here for the first time."
party: "wtf, go watch a vid and read a guide noob" "kick him, not going to waste my time" "sorry guys but this isn't going to work, i'm out"

^Petty much every df group I join.

Anyways, TC don't be so quick to drop a class so suddenly. If you enjoy the class keep playing it. Don't let anyone bring you down because of your playstyle. You can always create a PF/LS/FC group of ppl that are like mineded. I have already stopped tanking for the same reasons you have. Now that I have made friends and joined a FC the stress of tanking is gone. All in all, don't use DF. Just run with people you know who won't complain that you are new.

[Velo_Vandore]

I've only seen one person get truly yelled at for being new in any fight, and that was when the person joined a farm group expecting to get carried and end up wiping the group repeatedly. The community isn't nearly as toxic as the forums would lead you to believe, and most players are actually quite nice and at least moderately patient.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen any "GTFO noob" type comments in any DF/PF run.

More often people just silently plow through creating a traumatic experience for the new player, pressuring them to skip scenes so they don't get locked out. They don't care to explain tactics and will ignore questions from the new player making the experience pretty confusing / rubbish for them. I agree people will most times not be abusive as such, but they are almost always inconsiderate, and almost always I see comments like "go" or "I'm ready to pull..." which can make a new player feel very uncomfortable in the group. This kind of thing isn't constructive or fair. If you don't want to support the new player, then don't pressure them.

A polite kick would be better in that case explaining "sorry, most of us are farming this and don't have time to explain mechanics, but good luck in your next group". It's selfish to try to force the player to change or pressure them to meet your standards, either through the way you play or the words you type, that's why I say if you can't slow down for them (which personally I think is the nice thing to do), then kick just them or vote abandon without being rude (ideally explain reasons as above).

If you followed this however - kicking inexperienced players instead of pressuring them to keep up, you would often be waiting a long time for replacements which defeats the point. So if you're a player that's not willing to slow down I would suggest farming with FC mates, LS mates of party finder groups. Getting farming groups is not hard, but getting casual / learning runs is, so these inexperienced guys will keep coming to duty finder.

[Velo_Vandore]

You can always create a PF/LS/FC group of ppl that are like mineded

This comes up so often, but speaking from experience I really want to drive the point home that you can't ALWAYS do this. You can SOMETIME's do it if you're lucky and enough people are on / willing. I do encourage people to keep trying / waiting for a pre-formed first run, rather than just be dragged through in DF, because it's really worth the wait, but be aware this becomes particularly hard from early end game until EX primals and coil (which there are plenty of learning groups in PF for).

[Odett]

The problem with going into an 8 person fight (not 4 person, as the mechanics for those can be explained in less than a minute), is that you're holding back seven other players. It's perfectly understandable that you want to figure out things by yourself, and other players should respect that, but if that is what you're going to do, then make a Party Finder and find 7 other like-minded players. The problem with going into a fight with seven other players and you walking in blind is that you WILL die, and your trial and error method is not only affecting you, but your fellow party members. You should not be required to, but I see it as common courtesy to be informed about a fight before you step into it. You will most likely die on your first attempt anyway, but you will know exactly what mechanic you died to, and how to fix it.

If you INSIST of going in blind to every fight, you should at least know how to play your class, which in your case, it would be properly cycling between defensive cooldowns and getting enmity as fas as possible if/when ads spawn. Many groups don't wipe from mechanics, but because players don't know how to play their class.