ELEMENTAL WHEEL REWORKED ?

[Deifact]

It'd only really hurt BLM right? SMN egi are elemental related but their dots are unaspected. If they just gave BLM ability to cross class WHM elemental spells it'd be better. They'd have to add a thunder, water and aero nuke spells though.

I really liked the elemental wheel from before but I guess SE thinks players are too stupid in this game?

[Dhex]

BLM: Fire/Ice/Lightning


Fire - High Damage drains MP - Flare AoE High Damage drains MP to 0

Blizzard - Low Damage returns MP - Freeze AoE Low Damage causes Bind

Thunder - DoT drains MP

Add Elemental wheel;

Ifrit: Fire heals Ifrit per old Elemental Wheel rules and Fire is either strong or immune to Blizzard. BLM can only do low unaspected damage & a single DoT - useless throughout the entire fight. Weak to WHM Fluid Aura.

BLMs can no longer clear Ifrit HM because of the bias against them and no longer can unlock a Stardust Rod without a 100% carry.

Garuda: Weak to Blizzard - but Blizzard is still low potency. Fire is not strong to Wind; no benefits to bringing a BLM.

Titan: Immune to Lightning, neutral to Fire & Ice. Titan is already hard on casters. Effectively remove all Thunder DoT damge & procs.

Leviathan: Immune to Fire; Weak to Thunder DoT.

BLMs can no longer clear Leviathan HM because of the bias against them and can no longer complete the story-line without a 100% carry.

Ramuh: Thunder heals Thunder; Fire & Ice neutral. Weak to WHM Stone.


If you water down the Elemental wheel.. where same elements don't cause healing... and opposite elements aren't immune, and weak elements aren't half damage... What's the point?

You'd be right back at the point of saying the elements don't matter.

So why bother.

Seriously it's like you haven't actually played the game enough to realize that type of mechanic doesn't really benefit the game at all.

Also:

[Amberion]

Snip!

Umm. it's not hard to figure out that THM/BLM would have to get an overhaul also. Make it more like an actual FF Black Mage instead of what ever the hell it's supposed to be in this game.

[Dhex]

Umm. it's not hard to figure out that THM/BLM would have to get an overhaul also. Make it more like an actual FF Black Mage instead of what ever the hell it's supposed to be in this game.

Okay so overhaul the THM/BLM class mechanics, redo all it's Class and Job quests, and then re-balance PVP, every quest fight, primal, raid, & dungeon throughout the entire game so we can have an Elemental wheel that makes THM/BLM potentially less effective or even useless on certain content?

[Nalien]

Make it more like an actual FF Black Mage instead of what ever the hell it's supposed to be in this game.

How is Black Mage in XIV not an actual FF Black Mage? If anything XIs Black Mage was an abomination, before that I'm pretty sure Aero was almost exclusively a White Magic spell, and Stone was a non-element that inflicted confuse. Even in the (few) cases where Black Mage even had a Water spell, they didn't have it in the same way they had the others. I think Lulu is the only Black Mage ever to even have a host of Water spells, Vivi just had the single Water.

The only difference XIVs Black Mage has is that it doesn't have a selection of spells, but hey, this is a MMO so go figure single player mechanics aren't going to work. It worked in XI? No it didn't. Heck, it didn't work in the single player games really. Once you learn the next tier of spells, the previous become worthless. That is a stupid mechanic. I'd much rather Fire I, II and III all have their own utility.

[Amberion]

How is Black Mage in XIV not an actual FF Black Mage? If anything XIs Black Mage was an abomination, before that I'm pretty sure Aero was almost exclusively a White Magic spell, and Stone was a non-element that inflicted confuse

Wind element spells was only WHM in FFIII if I remember my games correctly. Stone was non element, confuse in only 1 game also. might have caused confuse in IX also, but can't remember that fight where it was used. You can correct me here if I'm wrong, my memory might not be accurate.

Even in the (few) cases where Black Mage even had a Water spell, they didn't have it in the same way they had the others. I think Lulu is the only Black Mage ever to even have a host of Water spells, Vivi just had the single Water.

Well, that is because it was only introduced as late as in FFVII.

Once you learn the next tier of spells, the previous become worthless. That is a stupid mechanic.

No it's not. It gives the player a sense of getting something new and better for the job. And well, if leveling actually took a bit of time, it would have been something to look forward to. Instead of getting an ability that might be used once a day.

And well, saying the next teir makes the previous useless.. We see that with equipment in the game, so why would it not work with magic?


EDIT:

FFXI as an example you began to only use your most powerful spell regardless of it's strength/weakness

That is because BLM got access to too much skill/magic accuracy gear. And no, you used your 2 most powerful spells. One for light and one for dark. ;p

[Reynhart]

Umm. it's not hard to figure out that THM/BLM would have to get an overhaul also. Make it more like an actual FF Black Mage instead of what ever the hell it's supposed to be in this game.

Look at BLMs back to Final Fantasy I. They use Fire, Blizzard and Thunder, that's all.
So, in FFXIV, they ARE actual FF Black Mages.

[Reynhart]

Too long to quote

Your Elemental wheel is odd.
In fact, the concept of Elemental Wheel is odd, since, before FFXI, there was no "wheel"
Fire and Blizzard were frequently opposite, so weak again each other.
Wind is not weak to ice, except in FFXI. In fact, Flying ennemies are sometimes weak to wind, and immune to earth, or vice-versa.
Earth is also frequently associated with wind, not lightning. In fact, in the usual trio of Black Magic spells, Thunder is often the most useful since it has no real opposite.
As for water, it's not really immune to Fire. At best, it can be immune to water and weak to Thunder.

So, againts Ifrit, BLM can use the weakness. Againt Garuda, every element is neutral, but since every weapon type is neutral too, it's not a big deal. Titan and Leviathan, same as Garuda, with better DoTs on Leviathan.

[Dhex]

^

These concepts are great in theory but the more you dilute their implementation the less meaning it has. At this point; why include elemental strengths & weaknesses if you're going to soften them to the point of not mattering in the first place?

FFXI as an example you began to only use your most powerful spell regardless of it's strength/weakness to a particular element because the more powerful spell still did more damage than the "right" spell. After this trend happened for awhile Square implemented a decreasing return on consecutive same-spell use so even if you did use the "right" spell it yielded increasingly less damage and you were forced to ignore the Elemental Wheel.

People seriously don't think about this topic at all when it's brought up or the trends it encourages in play style, group composition, or what fixes it will then entail.

Yoshida put a a metaphorical bullet through this particular issue's head by just eliminating the mess before it could happen.

FFXI; and it's weird little Element Wheel that eventually was entirely disregarded for most content.

[Riardon]

While it's a nice idea and more RPGish it will make the game more complicated and that's for sure. We will need to craft special consumables that raise the X resistance or drop the Y weakness. Special gear which we gonna need in fights etc. And at this moment I have already problem with people who don't know how to handle their class skills and fights. Remember not all of us have premade static parties and friends so we join DFs or random groups. This will make the gameplay even more complicated. I see healers spamming medica without reason instead of using cure. Draggons who never go to the side of the boss the get the buff from Heavy Thrust and people who don't know where to stand in fightrs even when you explain to them. And unfortunately I have to deal with such people every day in this game. If the elemental stats gonna make the gameplay even more complicated it will be a dissaster for the majority who will not know, or never see boss' stats etc etc etc. So Yoshida is right.