WAR Adjustments

[Coth_X]

What would be the point of a resource system if you don't need to worry about it? I think we have a pretty strong cross class skill selection (compared to the paladin). Leave it as it is.

Edit: But i like the idea of mdef on Foresight. Would give the Paladin a decent cross class skill too.

By that logic, we should take away pld's riot combo since it restores the resource they use for aoe hate. War uses TP for everything, and it wouldn't hurt having it as an option.

Though I can manage my tp, I'd like to have that one ability as a cross class skill over pld flash :/ and I still don't quite get why we get monk's featherfoot, but we don't get lancer's feint.

[Sibyll]

Not that they need the hate generation, but what if a heal taken from holmgang resulted in increased enmity or something to that effect? Wouldn't have to be big, but could give us a reason to use it in normal dungeons where oh shit times shouldn't be happening anyways.

I honestly don't think I've ever used it intentionally as of yet.

I'm in the same boat, I just rarely see any instances where Holmgang is useful. Perhaps that is lack of mastery of my own class, but as a defensive cool down I usually would've died anyways or the healer healed me in time and I didn't need it to begin with.

I'd be fine with them dropping the approach of making it a shitty Hallowed Ground equivalent and simply try to make it into a skill incomparable to the Gladiator skill set. Just something that sets them apart.

holmgang is fine as it is. Its a PVP ability like shadow bind, its crap everywhere else. Making a hallowed esque ability would not be warrior like at all. There is a big reason why tanks dont have access to TP regen like dps classes, stop spamming fracture if ure running out of TP.

If they want to make it a PvP skill then make it a PvP only skill and give us an actual PvE skill. I'd assume they added the PvP only skills for just that reason. While they are at it they can do that for the other classes.

Also I don't want the skill to be like Hallowed Ground and would be fine with it building off of the Warrior theme. Hell, they could make it into a damage/critical chance boost based on % of missing HP. Their Wrath stacks already give them passive Critical Chance so it would build off of that concept not to mention they get Internal Release as a Cross Class.

This is a greedy thread, and mostly pointless. Holmgang isn't changing get over it.

It is a greedy thread, but Holmgang is shit. This problem isn't unique to Warriors. Many classes have their share of useless/pointless skills. Sword Oath stands out as being a very shit skill. I'm sure someone has numbers to prove me wrong, but I look at this skill and wonder why they wasted a Job skill on this.

I think that over all the Cross Class system is very weak in terms of actual choices, Warriors being an exception. Why are Savage Blade and Skull Sunder CC skills?

[Reynhart]

By that logic, we should take away pld's riot combo since it restores the resource they use for aoe hate.

I didn't know PLD had a FREE skill that INSTANTLY restore 40% of their max MP.

And it seems like a lot of people forget that Holmgang can be used TWICE more than Hallowed Ground. If the duration was the same, PLD's trademark invicible skill would just be a lessen WAR one. No Thanks.
You can also learn how to time holmgang properly, or refrain your WS so that you can pop Inner Beast precisely when you need it...in short, know how to play the job.

[Sibyll]

I didn't know PLD had a FREE skill that INSTANTLY restore 40% of their max MP.

And it seems like a lot of people forget that Holmgang can be used TWICE more than Hallowed Ground. If the duration was the same, PLD's trademark invicible skill would just be a lessen WAR one. No Thanks.
You can also learn how to time holmgang properly, or refrain your WS so that you can pop Inner Beast precisely when you need it...in short, know how to play the job.

Getting anything really useful out of Holmgang requires either precise coordination with your healers so that they don't drop a big heal right as you pop it or healers that aren't topping you off before spike damage. It's generally counter intuitive for a healer to not heal you when you are low to the point that you'd use Holmgang and healing you for a big amount right as the tank pops Holmgang means it did nothing but bind you. This skill only functions as a defensive cool down if you take damage that would've killed you. Compare this to Hallowed Ground which is always a defensive cool down, unless you aren't being attacked.

Getting use out of Holmgang doesn't just involve knowing when to cast it, but also excellent coordination with your healers so that it actually functions like a defensive CD.

[Kitru]

And it seems like a lot of people forget that Holmgang can be used TWICE more than Hallowed Ground. If the duration was the same, PLD's trademark invicible skill would just be a lessen WAR one. No Thanks.

Being immune to all damage is quite a bit different than not dying. Magnitude of effect plays a very important part in the balancing process, which you seem to be forgetting here. Even if Holmgang's duration was increased, HG would still be better as an uber-CD since you can use it when you're about to take a crapton of damage as opposed to when you're low on hp and about to take a crapton of damage.

[Coth_X]

I didn't know PLD had a FREE skill that INSTANTLY restore 40% of their max MP.

Well, PLD doesn't have to burn their tp to do aoe enmity and last I checked my pld, had like 1500 mp or something like that.

I don't get tp starved anymore, but I still would rather have lancer invigorate and feint rather than second wind and featherfoot. I still don't get how one of 2 tanks in the game that can only parry, doesn't get the improved parry cross class skill :/