WAR Adjustments

[Fue]

Only thing i would change about holmgang is make it so that it only binds the target and lets you move in the cast range radius.

[whiskeybravo]

Only thing i would change about holmgang is make it so that it only binds the target and lets you move in the cast range radius.

Now that would actually make sense lol

I still think the bind is virtually useless, there are already many other jobs with binding abilities. I wonder if, hindsight being 20/20, Holmgang would have been better off trying to be the Warrior's version of Provoke. Many people dislike the idea of the taunt being a cross-class, Holmgang could have acted like Provoke, just a threat copy that ties the enemy to you briefly. I dunno, just a thought XD. I like it as an oh crap button, it's definitely contributed to a few saves, I just hate eating AoEs, it's like you've popped your oh crap button because you're about to die, now stand here and eat 1 or 2 extra AoE.

[MythToken]

Yes the worst thing about Holmgang is not being able to move.

[Kitru]

I still think the bind is virtually useless, there are already many other jobs with binding abilities.

The original intent of Holmgang was for it to be the WAR equivalent of Tempered Will (identical, the bind makes you immune to physics, the target bind is just there to let you still wail of your target; shorter CD to account for the utility of binding the target). Without the bind, WAR wouldn't have any physics immunity ability.

This is indicative of the entire problem with Holmgang: it tries to do too much. The bind makes it less useful as a survival CD, but it's the only reason that it acts as a physics CD. The pull/bind has a mediocre range and marginal utility with such a long CD, but it's required because of the bind. The survival aspect of it is decent, but it's crippled by the short duration required of the self-bind and target bind.

WAR should just get 2 abilities at 42: a pull/bind and a separate survival CD (the physics could be tied to either). It would allow for the functions to actually have the CDs/ranges/durations that those functions deserve rather than tying them all together and having them get in each others' way.

[whiskeybravo]

Well that makes a bit more sense I suppose, though even for a physics CD there are only 2 real situations I can think of to use it, Titan Ex and T5. It's marginally useful in Titan Ex, but impossible to use in T5 (compared to PLD tempered will for grabbing the other snake adds).. EDIT: I guess you could use holmgang if you got targeted by DB on the way over to the other snakes, "hold up guys, in 6 sec I got them" lol.. I know War is supposed MT, I'm just playing devil's advocate

[Kitru]

Well that makes a bit more sense I suppose, though even for a physics CD there are only 2 real situations I can think of to use it

Yeah, even when it was simply a physics CD it sucked because the only reason it made you immune was because it bound you in place. PLD basically got all of the functionality that Holmgang is supposed to provide (then and now) separated into multiple abilities each of which is stronger than the function bound to Holmgang (6 secs of can't die compared to HG; self-bind compared to Tempered Will; bind/pull utility compared to silence/stunlock/cover). The relative weakness doesn't bother me so much as the fact that they're all tied up in a single ability; it would be like having to activate HG, Cover, and Tempered Will at the same time any time you wanted to use one of those functions.

[Reynhart]

By that logic, we should take away pld's riot combo since it restores the resource they use for aoe hate.

I didn't know PLD had a FREE skill that INSTANTLY restore 40% of their max MP.

And it seems like a lot of people forget that Holmgang can be used TWICE more than Hallowed Ground. If the duration was the same, PLD's trademark invicible skill would just be a lessen WAR one. No Thanks.
You can also learn how to time holmgang properly, or refrain your WS so that you can pop Inner Beast precisely when you need it...in short, know how to play the job.

[Sibyll]

I didn't know PLD had a FREE skill that INSTANTLY restore 40% of their max MP.

And it seems like a lot of people forget that Holmgang can be used TWICE more than Hallowed Ground. If the duration was the same, PLD's trademark invicible skill would just be a lessen WAR one. No Thanks.
You can also learn how to time holmgang properly, or refrain your WS so that you can pop Inner Beast precisely when you need it...in short, know how to play the job.

Getting anything really useful out of Holmgang requires either precise coordination with your healers so that they don't drop a big heal right as you pop it or healers that aren't topping you off before spike damage. It's generally counter intuitive for a healer to not heal you when you are low to the point that you'd use Holmgang and healing you for a big amount right as the tank pops Holmgang means it did nothing but bind you. This skill only functions as a defensive cool down if you take damage that would've killed you. Compare this to Hallowed Ground which is always a defensive cool down, unless you aren't being attacked.

Getting use out of Holmgang doesn't just involve knowing when to cast it, but also excellent coordination with your healers so that it actually functions like a defensive CD.

[Kitru]

And it seems like a lot of people forget that Holmgang can be used TWICE more than Hallowed Ground. If the duration was the same, PLD's trademark invicible skill would just be a lessen WAR one. No Thanks.

Being immune to all damage is quite a bit different than not dying. Magnitude of effect plays a very important part in the balancing process, which you seem to be forgetting here. Even if Holmgang's duration was increased, HG would still be better as an uber-CD since you can use it when you're about to take a crapton of damage as opposed to when you're low on hp and about to take a crapton of damage.

[whiskeybravo]

Yeah, even when it was simply a physics CD it sucked because the only reason it made you immune was because it bound you in place. PLD basically got all of the functionality that Holmgang is supposed to provide (then and now) separated into multiple abilities each of which is stronger than the function bound to Holmgang (6 secs of can't die compared to HG; self-bind compared to Tempered Will; bind/pull utility compared to silence/stunlock/cover). The relative weakness doesn't bother me so much as the fact that they're all tied up in a single ability; it would be like having to activate HG, Cover, and Tempered Will at the same time any time you wanted to use one of those functions.

What about Tempered Will as a cross-class skill for Warrior? Remove the binding effect from Holmgang and just have the can't die function.