How's my BLM Rotation?

[IAmPotent]

@ks3v3n

Opening w/ B3 for a free Thunder/Halfcast F3 for the additional Fire in the opening rotation results in a higher DPS after the beginning of the first rotation.

B3: 220 Potency(176 under AF3), 3.5 sec/cast
F3: 220 Potency(176 under AF3), 3.5 sec/cast
T2: 50 Potency, 2.75 sec/cast
F1: 150 Potency(270 under AF3), 2.5 sec/cast

B3>T2>F3 is 8 Seconds, 446 Potency; 55.75pps(from now on referred to as "Rotation 1")
T2>F3>F1 is 8.75 seconds, 540 Potency; 61.71pps(from now on referred to as "Rotation 2")

So obviously, Rotation 2 seems like it's higher

Lets do a full rotation

Rotation 1 allows for 5 F1. An additional 1350 potency over 12.5 seconds. (1350+446)/20.25 = 88.69pps

Rotation 2 only gets 4 F1, and already used 1 in the opening. So it ends its first rotation w/ 3 additional F1 and an additional 7.5 seconds
(540+810)/16.25 = 83.07

As you can see, Rotation 1(opening with B3) is clearly more PPS over a full rotation, simply do to the additional F1.(Not even taking into account the chance for an additional Firestarter)

Now, the difference between them is 5PPS, by no means a large amount, and probably not a very large determining factor of your overall DPS in a fight.

However the fact is using Rotation 1 will have resulted in more damage over a full beginning rotation than Rotation 2. You could try to argue that R2 has a quicker chance to proc a Firestarter, however it needs 2 Firestarter before it will be doing more damage, and you only get 4 chances, compared to 5 chances with R1.

[Uninstall]

T2: 50 Potency, 2.75 sec/cast

T2 is 3 second/cast, and you should count the dot potency as well. So it's 50+35*7=295.

B3>T2>F3 is 8 Seconds, 446 Potency; 55.75pps(from now on referred to as "Rotation 1")
T2>F3>F1 is 8.75 seconds, 540 Potency; 61.71pps(from now on referred to as "Rotation 2")

Rotation 1 lasts for an additional 0.75 seconds. So it's 9 as well. The "half speed" F3 may be half of 3.5 second cast time, but you still have to wait a whole GCD before using the next spell.

Lets do a full rotation

Rotation 1 allows for 5 F1. An additional 1350 potency over 12.5 seconds. (1350+446)/20.25 = 88.69pps

Rotation 2 only gets 4 F1, and already used 1 in the opening. So it ends its first rotation w/ 3 additional F1 and an additional 7.5 seconds
(540+810)/16.25 = 83.07

The change would be rotation 1 now does 2019 potency over 21.5 seconds, which gives you 93.91pps.
Rotation 2 should instead be either T1>F3>F1>F1>F1>F1 or F3>F1>F1>F1>F1. The first one gives 1540 potency/16 seconds=96.25pps, and the second is 1300 potency/13.5 seconds=96.30pps. The reason for using T1 instead of T2 is because the rotation is shorter so you won't have a chance to use the full duration of T2.

@Waliel
Now if you add in Firestarter, it becomes a bit more complicated. For all the middle Fire 1s, it is 0.6*(150*1.8)+0.4*(220*1.8+150*1.8)/2, giving you an average of 295.2 potency/GCD, the very last one is 150*1.8+0.4*(220*1.4-220*0.7) since triggering that Firestarter allows your next Fire 3, the one under Umbral Ice to go from a 0.7 multiplier to 1.4.

So if we really wanna account for Firestarter, Rotation 1 becomes 2181.4 potency / 21.5 seconds = 101.46 pps. Rotation 2 without Thunder is 1437.2 potency over 13.5 seconds = 106.46.

Anyways, I don't see how I was being rude. I would say it's considered more rude to pass off things as facts when the only thing you have to back it up is "my numbers seem fine".

[IAmPotent]

Snip.

Changing cast times of thunders doesn't change anything as long as the same variables are being changed in both equations.

You also cannot argue that you would "use Thunder 1 in the second rotation because it's going to be longer". The debate is about opening with Bliz3 vs Thunder. Therefore if you use T1 in Rotation 2, you are using T1 in Rotation 1 as well.(because after the opening the rotations are going to be the same anyways)

However, as I stated, by the time you finish your 2nd Thunder cast, I've already cast

1x Bliz3,1x Thunder, 1x UI3 F3, and 5x F1.

compared to:

2x Thunder, 1x F3, and 4x F1


^Those amount of skills take roughly the same amount gcd's to perform(maybe .5sec difference)

You cannot in any way argue that 2 Thunder2(100 potency) + 1F3(220) + 4 F1(1080) + 1 AF3 B3(176)=(1576) is more potency than 1 B3(220), 1T2(50), 1 UI3 F3(176) & 5x F1(1350) = 1796.

For a proper theoretical comparison, both rotations have to be done until they reach the same amount of time performing.

Of course T>F3>F1>F1>F1>F1 looks stronger than B3>T>F3>F1>F1>F1. Because you've only done 3 F1 vs 4 F1. Both of those sets are around the 13-14 second mark.

But bringing them to the same relative time frame(adding Bliz3>T restart to the end) shows that although you're doing more damage in the first 15 seconds by starting with T/F3, you're going to be doing MORE damage after 20 seconds than you were with the other rotation.

[Uninstall]

You were the one that's calculating pps/second so obviously cast time does mattered there... u_u; I also stated you must include Thunder's dot potency, as once again, that matters for the pps/second calculation you did.

You do realize your argument is extremely flawed because the rotation that doesn't start with Blizzard will once again pull ahead after 20 seconds? At 20 seconds it's the second rotation that's using Fires while the first one is using Blizzard and Thunder.

[IAmPotent]

And at 30 seconds the first will be ahead, and at 40 the second, at 50 the first, etc.

They are going to continue to bounce until they they are interrupted, at which point will determine which one "provides higher DPS"

Neither of us is RIGHT, which my argument clearly shows, and which was one of the things implied by "Neither is a large determining factor in your overall DPS".

As well, changing the cast times doesn't matter, IF ALL thunders were calculated under the same cast time. The ratio between the 2 end results will always be the same as long as the same variable was changed in both. In fact, the final result, whether the NUMBERS are right or not, does not matter. Only the ratio between the 2 numbers is what was being discussed.

I could use made up numbers, as long as I used the same numbers for each variable in each equation.