Lockouts vs % Droprates - Pros, Cons, Comparisons and Discussion.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I'll start out impartial by listing out the pros and cons of both lockouts and % based drop rates then move onto my personal opinion.
(To avoid confusion, by % based drop rates I mean for example 5% 10% 15% ect per chest to get a piece of gear per run)

Lockout Pros:
Extends content by preventing you from getting too much too fast
Creates tight "static" communities
Helps curb the competitive difference between casual and hardcore

Lockout Cons:
Content extension is artificial
Prevents larger groups from playing together
Creates a curb between the lucky and unlucky

Percentage based Pros:
Extends content by making you have to play more to get more
Large groups can play together freely
Allows players to enjoy new content without restriction

Percentage based Cons:
Creates a gap between those with a lot of time and those with little time to play
Makes players run the same thing several times to get gear
Makes older content less relevant (Why farm mythos when you can farm <insert-high-level-content>)

Personally looking over the top 3 pros and cons of both systems I lean more towards % based drop rates. I don't mean anything extreme, however. I personally think 2 Chests with 1% lowest or 10% highest for an item is a good balance. (Now onto my anecdotes)

With that said I think the effects on the community would be game changing. People would become more social because running outside of your current static (FC or not) would become more common place and that would foster more friendships between people. This from what I saw in 1.0 creates a stronger community that makes the game just that much harder to unsubscribe from which would just be good for business.

On the other hand there is a negative effect I can't stop seeing on the community that has been because of lockouts. Small statics have caused a lot of xenophobia between players. People get very unfriendly with people outside of their statics even within a FC. Also I see a lot of people getting so left out from their FC because of statics not letting them in that they end up leaving the game over it.

I really do hope the devs try to use % based drop rate in dungeons instead of lockouts in the future and if a community rep relays this or has relayed similar feedback to the dev team I would absolutely be thrilled to know about it as well.
Anyways, those are my thoughts but I would love to hear others' pro/con lists and thoughts as it would benefit to hear from other players not just myself. (But please keep it civil!)


EDIT:
These to me are some replies that really stood out to me here so I'm replying here on the OP to advance the subject.

...we [are] forced to pick and choose and leave people behind and take some people some weeks, its just a hot a mess, having anything less than a multiple of 8 is detrimental as people must seek else where for groups...

This is a common issue I hear about, and I hear about it often as well as experience it. It's one of the biggest drawbacks of locking out players from participating instead of a CT style lockout or % based.

I much prefer lockouts. Its easier to manage my time around those lock outs and have ample time to do other stuff.

That is indeed a good argument for lockouts and it does make me think - since Coil 1-5 were unlocked I did next to nothing but farm it. I just had no time for anything else.

I would much prefer a system where there is a loot lockout but not restricted to 1 piece of gear. This means that you can roll for as many pieces of loot the first time you attempt that content for that week. Once you have downed the boss, you can run it as many times as you want but you can't roll on any loot. This would solve the problem of not being able to help fc mates/friends who have not done the content for that week while not letting a player gear too quickly through multiple runs.

A Crystal Tower style lockout in my opinion would be really beneficial to the community and would effectively foster the same kind of "Play with my friends and FC" as RNG drop rates without the much hated frustration of low drop rates. I feel it would kill some of the fun of getting a drop, but that's opinion.

A healthy game has both content types, in my opinion. In XI pre abyssea we had dynamis, limbus, Assault/Nyzul/Einherjar on lockout. Then sky, sea, BCNMs, HNMs, SCNMs as continuously farm-able content. And yes, this game is young yet and I believe it will eventually have both in abundance. But for its first year of development, they have decided to go totally to the lockout side. As such, it just seems to make more sense for Free Company comradery, friendship and morale to have it be a loot only lockout system.

I never played XI but I do hear a lot about the diversity of content it had in it's prime. I'm hoping FFXIV gets the same treatment where we will not be limited to 1 set of highest tier armor and 1 way to get it. To me this is the best outcome as it makes (almost) everyone happy.

[MapleDeepDish]

I agree 100% with this assessment. The current lockout systems is soooooo detrimental to a positive community attitude. I feel like SE probably is aware of what it is doing, but has made a decision based on years of whining and crying about "boohoo RNG is evil" and has just given people what they asked for even if it contributes to a fractured, exclusive community. Be careful what you wish for, if you will. RNG is a necessary component in MMOs, whether you like it or not.

[Mook_Mook]

I can definitely agree, our FC doesn't have enough for two groups and people cant always get on, are we forced to pick and choose and leave people behind and take some people some weeks, its just a hot a mess, having anything less than a multiple of 8 is detrimental as people must seek else where for groups. I just dont know what to do about it.

[Zumi]

The lockout system is fine. I rather not have to run something 300+ times and not get it like salvage bodies which had a 1% drop rate in FFXI.

[AmyNeudaiz]

The lockout system is fine. I rather not have to run something 300+ times and not get it like salvage bodies which had a 1% drop rate in FFXI.

Now I do respect someone who would rather have lockouts over a 1~10% drop rate but to call it "fine" would be rather willfully ignorant. There are too many problems on both sides of the fence.

[RumiP]

Now I do respect someone who would rather have lockouts over a 1~10% drop rate but to call it "fine" would be rather willfully ignorant. There are too many problems on both sides of the fence.

Not a very good host to discussion about the pros and cons of something when you can tell someone their opinion is ignorant.

[AmyNeudaiz]

Not a very good host to discussion about the pros and cons of something when you can tell someone their opinion is ignorant.

I didn't really mean it in an insulting manner, I am trying to invite more discussion than just "it's fine".

[RumiP]

I didn't really mean it in an insulting manner, I am trying to invite more discussion than just "it's fine".

The poster in question made their opinion clear. They believe things are currently fine. You assumed they did not have complete knowledge of how the system currently is. You do not know that. They may very well know exactly what you know, but made a deduction different from you. They are not ignorant.

I also think the current lockout system applied to the current coil dungeon is fine. That is my opinion, and it is based on my experiences. A system like CT originally had, applied to coil, would remove my will to participate in the game.

[skaterger]

Now I do respect someone who would rather have lockouts over a 1~10% drop rate but to call it "fine" would be rather willfully ignorant. There are too many problems on both sides of the fence.

Way to go keeping it civil calling someone wilfully ignorant right off the bat. Now neither system is desirable but if I had to choose, I would rather prefer the lockout system. The drop rate system in addition to the problems you already mentioned, is going to make content obsolete faster than the alternative. Think moogle ex, how many people actually do the fight once they got what they wanted from there? And coil is supposed to last us for 6 months. The drop system is also going to screw over people who have a fixed amount of time to play per week as they can go for months literally without ever seeing anything drop while those that have hundreds of hours to spend banging their heads on the wall will eventually get what they want. If you think the rng system in atma is bad, this is a gazillion times worse.

I would much prefer a system where there is a loot lockout but not restricted to 1 piece of gear. This means that you can roll for as many pieces of loot the first time you attempt that content for that week. Once you have downed the boss, you can run it as many times as you want but you can't roll on any loot. This would solve the problem of not being able to help fc mates/friends who have not done the content for that week while not letting a player gear too quickly through multiple runs.

[MapleDeepDish]

First off, Amy did say she respected the opinion of being pro lockout. The "willfully ignorant" part probably could have been reworded to something like "calling it fine is completely ignoring the community issue." And thats what we really have a problem with here, I think. The end of your post, skateger, I would echo 100%. Why can't we have that system. Where you can run something with friends as much as you want, but the game only lets you have access to the loot of the content once a week.