Being Gendered Correctly

[Razzle]

I perfectly know it's only one language - as said, it was just an example. I know where my language comes from :P

I speak Hebrew IRL and as far as I know there is no pararell to "it" neither. Everything is either male or female, objects too. And the correct way to refer to a few mixed genders in a group is refer to them as the gender that is the majority in that group (IE, a group of 3 female and 2 male refered as female). If you don't know which is the majority then it's acceptable to refer as male.

[Tiraelina]

Um.. and that has what to do with wanting to be talked about/referred to with the correct pronouns?

It's not asking to be a special case or be treated differently to suggest that people use pronouns that match a player's presented character or remain gender neutral unless corrected or informed by that player differently. That's just basic human decency. Nothing to do with gaming really. It just comes up because in a social game, people use words, and words matter.

Because what you are on the other end in a game is irrelevant. It's like getting mad at someone that calls everyone they don't know "Bob". It's called insanity.

[Elvie]

Because what you are on the other end in a game is irrelevant. It's like getting mad at someone that calls everyone they don't know "Bob". It's called insanity.

So a person's gender outside the game isn't relevant... Awesome. Then let's do the logical thing and refer to players according to their in-game gender, unless they tell us it is something different, just like the OP asked in the first place. So glad you agree

[Tiraelina]

So a person's gender outside the game isn't relevant... Awesome. Then let's do the logical thing and refer to players according to their in-game gender, unless they tell us it is something different, just like the OP asked in the first place. So glad you agree

No, I really don't. It's irrelevant both ways. Digital avatars don't carry any meaning.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

So a person's gender outside the game isn't relevant... Awesome. Then let's do the logical thing and refer to players according to their in-game gender, unless they tell us it is something different, just like the OP asked in the first place. So glad you agree

The "most logical thing" would be not to play a MMO in the first place, as wasting so much time is definitely not logical, and arguing about all of this is even less so.

Just saying that logic has no place in here :P

[micropanther7]

It's only an issue if you allow it to affect you so much that it becomes an issue. If it was being done maliciously then that is something totally different. Real Life is only relevant to an in game world if you make it relevant.

Personally I think the OP is being overly sensitive to the "issue". I want players to see me as a fun player who brings enough to the game that I make a good part of the team. Not base their attitude on me having breasts.

As I said before, we are all Gender: Gamer.

I hear what you're saying, but yet that is your perspective. What is no issue to you, is an issue to HER, how hard is that to understand? You're not her, so how can you know how things affect her personally, or how she deals with things? Especially since she's transgender, most of us can't even relate. People are different, they respond differently to same issues, have different life experiences... I don't think she's being overly sensitive at all, or that dramatic tbh.

Elvie summed it up perfectly for me

It's not asking to be a special case or be treated differently to suggest that people use pronouns that match a player's presented character or remain gender neutral unless corrected or informed by that player differently. That's just basic human decency. Nothing to do with gaming really. It just comes up because in a social game, people use words, and words matter.

Edit: Agrees with Remilia_Nightfall, logic has no place here loll. It's subjective would you say? I dunno, got a headache and going in search of some pills :O

[Lilysparkle]

I use "He" by default. I swap to "she" if I'm asked to do so.
And I'm not even thinking that when I say "He" is a male or when I'm say "She" is a female. I don't care at all. I'm just taking the option more probable.
Seeing this http://news.mmosite.com/content/2013...are_male.shtml I think is totally undestable.

Quick googlesearch talks about 60-40% split acording to BBC, but I think that they problably asked in game or something like that,acording to my experience is not true. I woud say 80%-20%

But anyway, this shoudn't be a big deal. No one shoud treat you diferently for being one gender or another, so what? If you feel insulted for an asumption based on a fact (most female characters are guys in R.L.) the problem is you actitude. I undertand that you can feel bad about it and you have a real life problem about it. But you have to take in mind that no one wants to insult you with this.You are the one who have to overcome that feeling.

Your post makes me a little sad if it's okay to say. Your attitude is a good example of how acclimatised we can become to everyday sexism. It's nice that you will change if you are asked, but the key phrase is "I'm not even thinking". It's just a default behavior for you, and that's the crux of it. Is it so hard to just use the pronoun associated with the character you're interacting with. The game isn't only populated by male characters. I just find it strange I guess. For me personally, "I'm not even thinking" when I choose to use he or she depending on the character gender. See the difference? It's not that hard. If they then correct me, and mention they'd prefer to be addressed a certain way, that is no problem at all! But to just use one pronoun exclusively despite the fact that there are female/male versions of all the races in the game, seems slightly weird in my opinion.

Regardless of the gender of the person behind the character, you're incorrectly identifying the gender of the character you're interacting with. To only ever immediately use one pronoun when you might be surrounded by female characters seems kind of odd. We may as well just have only male versions of every race. Maybe that's just me, and that's fine. Though do you maybe begin to see the point I'm making? I'm not trying to attack you or anything, just trying to let ppl see it a different way. I also don't think it's fair to declare to ppl "it shouldn't be a big deal". What a deal is to someone, whether big or small, is for them to decide. Btw the "option more probable" just seems to be a bit lazy to me. It means 20% of the time (the numbers you used), you're just flat out wrong.

(just an aside point.. if the game DID only have male versions of any race, then yes I would expect to be called "he" etc. However, not ironically, I probably wouldn't really play such a game in the first place unless I really, really liked some aspect or theme about it. Hi Geralt ;D )

Generally speaking, I don't mind any more - and the majority of ppl are respectful and courteous. For a time it bothered me a bit but it's something that we female gamers get accustomed to (and again, probably something most male gamers never even come to realise or think about). If it's a Duty Roulette and someone refers to me as "he" once or twice, I'm fine with it, because I'm unlikely to see these ppl ever again. I'm there to tank, heal or squish things, it doesn't really matter if I have boobs or not. Sure, if someone is repeatedly using "him" lots and lots of multiple times, I might be tempted to correct them, no matter the circumstances. Though sometimes I don't really like to draw attention to the fact and make it seem like it's a big deal to me, so sometimes I *will* actually stay silent - another effect that we have to deal with. Stay silent or look like you're making a fuss.

Otherwise, the other time I might say something is if I am doing stuff ingame regularly enough with this person that they should probably have the correct idea about me in their mind - but again only if they were using "he" repeatedly, etc. Hopefully that seems reasonable. A lot of the time, most of the ppl never draw any focus to gender and I'm totally fine with that.

I would always use character gender until corrected. And I will often use their first name. Someone wrote earlier about shortened versions of their name, and how that might bother them, and interestingly, I've always tried to use someone's full first name, even if in the middle of a fight where it's hectic and their name has apostrophes or is difficult to spell.

[Sapphic]

So a person's gender outside the game isn't relevant... Awesome. Then let's do the logical thing and refer to players according to their in-game gender, unless they tell us it is something different, just like the OP asked in the first place. So glad you agree

For your ingame friends, your FC. You have a point, For every other random player, especially ones you may meet once in DF no matter how long you play, not really.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Your post makes me a little sad if it's okay to say. Your attitude is a good example of how acclimatised we can become to everyday sexism.

And here we are, throwing the word "sexism" around once more.

Seriously, if whining about pronouns in an MMO is what "sexism" is about, I think we can safely say that sexism has been finally defeated, since this is hardly something problematic.

And honestly, if you start calling people according to the In Game sex, you are going to guess wrong most of the time, or at least definitely more than going always with "he".

So yeah, going "all male" is still the safest bet, as things stand currently. Get over it, there is no sexism involved, as already said no one cares if you are male or female. You are equally unimportant.

[Sapphic]

I hear what you're saying, but yet that is your perspective. What is no issue to you, is an issue to HER, how hard is that to understand? You're not her, so how can you know how things affect her personally, or how she deals with things? Especially since she's transgender, most of us can't even relate. People are different, they respond differently to same issues, have different life experiences... I don't think she's being overly sensitive at all, or that dramatic tbh.

Well to be honest, unless SE enforce a strict policy to that extent. There's nothing you can do to change it. How many of the population you think even bother with the forums? Personally I refer to people by their character name. Or if they put their name as a title, Princess, lady, lord, etc, then i'll call them by their job XD

In spanish and Portuguese, if their are 99 female friends and only one male. They are still given the male collective noun.

It does irk a little that "male" gamers are so closed minded to the fact we are making a noticeable presence in the gaming world. All the G.I.R.L.S and M.M.O.R.P.G things they like to throw out when anyone mentions about female gamers. Maybe it's a sense of insecurity that we are getting involved in something which was, traditionally, a male only hobby. Or fear that we will show them how to play XD