Coerthas: Then and Now

[Niniyo]

*nod* Actually I saw your post on Reddit back then too =) Like I mentioned, the big thing is, even in the parts of the zone that exist, they don't seem the same. Not just snow covered now, but like, huge forts instead of camps. Did they build them in the 5 years since? (Were Stone/Steel Vigil there? I think I read that at least Stone Vigil existed, but not as a dungeon?)

I guess that's my core question. I'm used to craters and the land being pushed up or down, and there's the entire frozen waterfall, but the man made structure that look so big suddenly rising up? Perhaps I'm just not giving the High Houses enough credit.

[Enkidoh]

That is actually indeed the case - in Revenant's Toll an npc mentions that when the Calamity occurred the original aetheryte network that sustained the original camps was destroyed, they mused about simply reinstating old-style camps, but then decided to actually build them as proper villages and towns so that not just adventurers would benefit, but the realm itself, providing shelter and basic services to anyone who needs them.

Some were simply rebuilt on the same site (like Camp Tranquil and Drybone), but some were simply abandoned, left to the elements and shifted location (this is best seen at Camp Overlook and Camp Revenant's Toll, where the ruins of the original 1.0 aetheryte camp can still be seen, with the new version relocated nearby).

[Myranda]

I did this overlay a while ago for a Reddit post about this topic. My biggest regret is ARR (my only one, really), is the loss of scale of the world. While the copy paste was a bit of an issue, I loved the vastness of the zones. Now the city states feel more like neighborhoods.

It's actually only a perception of loss of scale, likely due to reintroducing zone borders as well as more varying landscape (if its all repetitive, it can seem bigger because there's fewer good landmarks to base your progress on). Based on the map grid itself, the number of yalms is pretty much identical between the two versions. The only way the physical size could truly be different is if they completely adjusted how big a yalm is, and it doesn't seem to me that they did that.

[PArcher]

If you look at all the parts that were cut out of old Coerthas, there is a massive chunk missing between it and Gridania. And it's not like you can just retcon an entire zone between two existing zones.

They can easily do that, especially with an expansion (it IS highly likely to be focused on Ishgard and their war with Dravania after all). Or they can keep the short-cut (maybe have an NCP who will escort you through the now very dangerous territory), and add the long ways that will take you through a different path.

[Andaeron]

It's actually only a perception of loss of scale, likely due to reintroducing zone borders as well as more varying landscape (if its all repetitive, it can seem bigger because there's fewer good landmarks to base your progress on). Based on the map grid itself, the number of yalms is pretty much identical between the two versions. The only way the physical size could truly be different is if they completely adjusted how big a yalm is, and it doesn't seem to me that they did that.

It's not though; look at the overlay again. There were zone lines in 1.0, too. When you got to the very edge of the Shroud, you would zone into Coerthas (loading screen and all), but you would come in all the way at the bottom right, in the Eastern Lowlands. Then you had to follow the road to get to the Central Highlands, which takes you through an area roughly the size of the Central Highlands themselves. Imagine having to run from the Observatory in Coerthas now all the way to Behemoth's Dominion then back again. THAT was how far it was from the edge of the Shroud to Ishgard's gates in 1.0.

[Nutz]

It's actually only a perception of loss of scale, likely due to reintroducing zone borders as well as more varying landscape (if its all repetitive, it can seem bigger because there's fewer good landmarks to base your progress on). Based on the map grid itself, the number of yalms is pretty much identical between the two versions. The only way the physical size could truly be different is if they completely adjusted how big a yalm is, and it doesn't seem to me that they did that.

This is more or less true, especially for Coerthas, on a per zone basis. Of course, we lost most of the Coerthas zones, half of Mor Dhona, and I a bit of the Shroud I think. Personally I think it's all for the good as the current zones feel unique and purposeful to me, at least compared to what we had. I'll enjoy having new areas in the future and I even hope they revive some of the ones that are missing, but I wouldn't want them there simply for the sake of scale.

[Myranda]

It's not though; look at the overlay again. There were zone lines in 1.0, too. When you got to the very edge of the Shroud, you would zone into Coerthas (loading screen and all), but you would come in all the way at the bottom right, in the Eastern Lowlands. Then you had to follow the road to get to the Central Highlands, which takes you through an area roughly the size of the Central Highlands themselves. Imagine having to run from the Observatory in Coerthas now all the way to Behemoth's Dominion then back again. THAT was how far it was from the edge of the Shroud to Ishgard's gates in 1.0.

That's true and I don't dispute that, because that's a whole different issue of all other areas of Coerthas being removed except the Central Highlands (i.e. the Eastern Lowlands across Griffin Crossing, the Western Highlands where Riversmeet was and which is now blocked by the Snowcloak) as well as them changing where exactly the zone lines are as a result of those removals. But when comparing JUST the central area of 1.0 to what we have in ARR, they are in fact the same. I will note that the total number of grid lines is different, but that's because in 1.0 they represented 100y, but in ARR each grid tile is only 50y.

[NintenPyjak64]

This thread is making me miss old Coerthas... Hell even Old Eorzea in general

[Andaeron]

When I say the scale has changed, I don't mean that they took the landscape and shrank it into a smaller area, I mean that they have changed the distances between key landmarks. Either they have removed the Eastern Lowlands (as if they never existed), or we are to believe that we skip the entire area (that is roughly the size of the Central Highlands) when we zone. It's like how we don't have to walk the length of the bridge into Limsa (or Gridania, for that matter- how many 2.0 players even know that Gridania is surrounded by water?).

Or put another way, if today 3.0 was announced and they said they were redoing the map, and that from now on when you zoned out of Gridania through Blue Badger Gate you ended up in the South Shroud near Buscarron's Druthers, wouldn't you wonder where Bentbranch went? And wouldn't the shroud feel that much smaller? THAT is what I mean by "loss of scale."


Come to think on it, the entire La Noscean map has the same problem. There are zone lines that take you from one side of the island to the other, with nothing in between.

[Zephyr-Umbra]

how many 2.0 players even know that Gridania is surrounded by water?).

I'd wager not many of us, my mind is blown from that single comment. As someone who prides themself on being a lore enthusiast and likes to adventurer about areas seeing how they pan out in the bigger scope of things. I honestly had little to no idea this was the case. I'd love for SE to allow us to revist the days of old that was 1.0, as some of us never got the chance to bask in it's glory, and reading this thread has only made me somewhat sad that i'll never get to see my favorite area. -Coerthas- exactly as it was before hand. Such a visually beautiful and lore rich area of the game, hopefully one day we'll get to scale that mighty citidal that has long eluded players for years.