Names for Tempering

[DoctaruRavenbe]

This has probably come up before and will eventually come up again but with 2.2's release we have been given different terminology for the Tempering process when it comes to the Lord of the Whorl: Drowning/Drowned.

To that end while we know that at least two other races for the sake of simplicity have used Tempering/Tempered, would not each Primal have a name to the process that reflects their natures? Ifrit has claim on Tempering, as it was first brought up when we met him in the game. The name also fits as tempering is also related to fire, one tempers a blade to make it stronger and remove its "impurities." and while sylphs are referred to as tempered in a couple of FATEs (mob names, descriptions, etc.) I feel a better name for the Ramuh's claimed might reflect his elemental nature. The same can be said for Garuda, Titan, and Shiva: different names for the same process.


Titan I feel could calls his process (if we ever seen him use it) Burying or Crushing maybe even Entombing. For Shiva, Frozen and Freezing comes to mind. I am uncertain what Garuda might call the process, save that she uses it as the worst punishment possible if the story is used as an example. What do you all think of this? Would the primals be content with a simple name process? I honestly do not think so. These aetheric entities are too prideful and gluttonous for power to have the same process be called the same thing.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

AFAIR, Titan "enthralls" slaves. Ifrit definitely has his claim on "tempering." Ramuh's effect is known as being "touched."

[Kicha]

There are some mobs in the Sahagin area that are "Drowned" so there's that.
Perhaps it is simply that we (our characters and the Scions) simply use tempering as a generic term to refer to the process because Ifrit was the first one that we ran in to. As far was what the Primals or their followers call the process, I agree that it should refer to something corresponding to their element.
Maybe Garuda's can be "Flayed"? But now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing any tempered forces in Garuda's employ. Or Titan's for that matter. I only remember Ifrit and Leviathan as having tempered forces. Even Ramuh seems to only be concentrating his tempering on the Sylphs.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

Even Ramuh seems to only be concentrating his tempering on the Sylphs.

That's because no one really interacts with the sylphs. Probably because this one is tired of those ones referring to this one as this one.

Mr.T pity's the fool that don't talk about themself in the third-person perspective. Jesus christ, Even Yoda was more tolerable than sylphs.

[Anonymoose]

A lot of this confusion stems from the fact that Ifrit was the first primal to show off the capability. The word "TEMPER" can mean either "to moderate or control" or "to strengthen with heat." A lot of people assume that the word is associated with Ifrit, Lord of the Inferno, through the second definition - especially when contrasted to Leviathan, Lord of the Whorl, and his habit of "DROWNING" people (a term that's been in since 2.0 if you experienced Lominsa's city-specific introduction).

The thing is, a lot of the in-game flavor text refers to the sylphs being TEMPERED in the "Levinlight" of Ramuh. So is temper for all primals? Or did they borrow Ifrit's word for use with Ramuh? If the former, why avoid it for Leviathan's thralls? If the latter, why not go back and localize something less confusing for Ramuh? I guess we'll have to wait for more on Titan or Shiva.

I don't know what to say, otherwise - it could go either way.

Based on the Sylphs, I'm of a mind to say that it's been Tempering (the first definition) for all primals all the time and that "The Drowned" has been a term Lominsans were using since before they knew what tempering was. We seemed to only vaguely understand that tempering existed in 1572 and Leviathan had been creating Serpent Reavers (as far as we can tell) since ten years earlier... except the new beast tribe story for Levaithan, much to my frustration, has nothing to do with their relationship with Leviathan in any way whatsoever as far as I can tell. In fact, it seems to imply that Leviathan had little to do with it in spite of his appearance at exactly the same time as the Sahagin became more violent.

I'm more confused than ever, in some regards.

[Lusavari]

Actually, Moose, Sylphs use the word "Touched" for their kind who have been taken by Ramuh. I think somewhere, there's mention of Titan Crushing his followers. If you read a lot of the story quests from around 25 though, the Sylphs like to say "The Touched-ones" when referring to Ramuh's Sylphs. I think Garuda is the only one who hasn't seen a term used, but it would probably be choked or rasped.

[Anonymoose]

Actually, Moose, Sylphs use the word "Touched" for their kind who have been taken by Ramuh.

That's just the thing - only the sylphs use that word. The non-sylph NPCs, journal entries, and FATE descriptions all call them tempered, which shouldn't be the case if every primal has a unique term attached to their "blessing." Even the mob itself is called Tempered Sylph, akin to the Drowned mobs in La Noscea.

Sylphs tempered in the levin-light of the primal Ramuh have descended into Little Solace to abduct their untempered brethren. Protect the innocent by delivering lightning-swift justice to the perpetrators.

I'm not saying there's not some uniformity here somewhere, I'm just saying that there's way too much ambiguity for me to jump on the bandwagon of "This is Canon." Touched could very well be the true name for it; light can't do much else to you. Then again, the first time they said it, I thought they meant... you know... <taps head> "Touched."

For what it's worth, the Garuda quest uses both terms, and touched is just a general catch-all for what Garuda thinks Hydaelyn does.

Amidst the whirling winds, you succeed in striking down the Lady of the Vortex, only to see her rise once more, reinvigorated by the belief of her Ixali disciples. Yet the beastmen's prayers come to naught when Garuda's attempt to temper you fails, prompting a mysterious force to tear a Crystal of Light from her breast.

That foul stench... I see now... She has touched you!

Still more for Titan, where Wheiskaet, who is determining whether or not you'll be good enough to beat Titan, says that Titan's inability to temper you won't be enough.

Again, not saying there aren't different terms, I'm just saying that if there are, there's not enough consistency for confidence.

[Kyan]

I was once the believer of different terms - I made a post about it a while ago. But Mr. Moose is right - there are different groups of people, within the game world, who refer to "tempering" as different terminology (Limsans with the drowning, sylphs with the touching, etc), but "tempered" seems to be the universal term used by those in the know within the game lore.

[Lusavari]

Did tempering appear in 1.0? I think it would be useful to investigate some of that history. In the mean time, I think that "temper" just took off because it was the easiest term to use universally, and it was used so the player didn't get confused. Unlike us lore junkies, most people don't want to have to keep up with 8 or 9 terms for something.

[Anonymoose]

Did tempering appear in 1.0?

Kind of. The term did not, but Ifrit did temper some people and it was a big mystery exactly what he did to make them worship him or why we were immune (we knew we were "blessed" by something, but what it was was up for grabs. We used to joke about Siren because for a little bit there, Siren as an unseen Wandering Races primal made some sense; I liked that theory for a time).

The Ascian/Primal arc in 1.0 then paused for a side-story about an Ala Mhigan resistance group trying to rebel against the Imperial foothold in Mor Dhona, but after Gaius utterly crushed them in one of the most badass character introductions ever, the story stopped with Thancred/Y'shtola/Yda/Papalymo saying that they would continue searching for what mysterious force blessed us and what the limits of our power truly were. After Yoshida took over, though, that story was halted and the Seventh Umbral Era storyline came instead.

We were supposed to come back to the Ascian / Primal arc at Level 52 with the revelation that the Reaper Ascian was the entity the beast tribes were so afraid of in the first place and that one was currently attacking Mt. O'Ghomoro. Upon arriving there, Titan had been summoned by the terrified Kobold and the Company of Heroes was attempting to put him down, but some were tempered in the process, leading to a discussion about what tempering was (again, though, I don't think the term was used even in that unreleased quest). None of that ever happened, a huge amount of the 1.0 storyline was scrapped for parts, and we got A Realm Reborn's "second chance" at telling the story more coherently.

Some of the old story can be pieced back together, a little bit of it will be expanded on the ARR's future, and a lot of it is seemingly no longer canon. Which is which remains to be seen.

(BRING BACK STHALMANN! <is dragged out of the room while shouting, "STHALMANN LIVES!">)

Unlike us lore junkies, most people don't want to have to keep up with 8 or 9 terms for something.

They could always add several terms and just refer to them all as "blessings," if they wanted to; the whole blessing/curse binary plays into icon gods pretty well. I think what's stopping them is that there doesn't seem to be a cap on the number of future primals. Sure we have the six + two big names, but there are a lot more coming, some completely out of left field according to Yoshida's teasing. Can they really come up with that many terms? It's easier to just fall back on the "control/moderate" definition of temper and be done with it unless spicing up the flavor text with some cultural perception.