Names for Tempering

[DoctaruRavenbe]

This has probably come up before and will eventually come up again but with 2.2's release we have been given different terminology for the Tempering process when it comes to the Lord of the Whorl: Drowning/Drowned.

To that end while we know that at least two other races for the sake of simplicity have used Tempering/Tempered, would not each Primal have a name to the process that reflects their natures? Ifrit has claim on Tempering, as it was first brought up when we met him in the game. The name also fits as tempering is also related to fire, one tempers a blade to make it stronger and remove its "impurities." and while sylphs are referred to as tempered in a couple of FATEs (mob names, descriptions, etc.) I feel a better name for the Ramuh's claimed might reflect his elemental nature. The same can be said for Garuda, Titan, and Shiva: different names for the same process.


Titan I feel could calls his process (if we ever seen him use it) Burying or Crushing maybe even Entombing. For Shiva, Frozen and Freezing comes to mind. I am uncertain what Garuda might call the process, save that she uses it as the worst punishment possible if the story is used as an example. What do you all think of this? Would the primals be content with a simple name process? I honestly do not think so. These aetheric entities are too prideful and gluttonous for power to have the same process be called the same thing.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

AFAIR, Titan "enthralls" slaves. Ifrit definitely has his claim on "tempering." Ramuh's effect is known as being "touched."

[Kicha]

There are some mobs in the Sahagin area that are "Drowned" so there's that.
Perhaps it is simply that we (our characters and the Scions) simply use tempering as a generic term to refer to the process because Ifrit was the first one that we ran in to. As far was what the Primals or their followers call the process, I agree that it should refer to something corresponding to their element.
Maybe Garuda's can be "Flayed"? But now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing any tempered forces in Garuda's employ. Or Titan's for that matter. I only remember Ifrit and Leviathan as having tempered forces. Even Ramuh seems to only be concentrating his tempering on the Sylphs.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

Even Ramuh seems to only be concentrating his tempering on the Sylphs.

That's because no one really interacts with the sylphs. Probably because this one is tired of those ones referring to this one as this one.

Mr.T pity's the fool that don't talk about themself in the third-person perspective. Jesus christ, Even Yoda was more tolerable than sylphs.

[Anonymoose]

A lot of this confusion stems from the fact that Ifrit was the first primal to show off the capability. The word "TEMPER" can mean either "to moderate or control" or "to strengthen with heat." A lot of people assume that the word is associated with Ifrit, Lord of the Inferno, through the second definition - especially when contrasted to Leviathan, Lord of the Whorl, and his habit of "DROWNING" people (a term that's been in since 2.0 if you experienced Lominsa's city-specific introduction).

The thing is, a lot of the in-game flavor text refers to the sylphs being TEMPERED in the "Levinlight" of Ramuh. So is temper for all primals? Or did they borrow Ifrit's word for use with Ramuh? If the former, why avoid it for Leviathan's thralls? If the latter, why not go back and localize something less confusing for Ramuh? I guess we'll have to wait for more on Titan or Shiva.

I don't know what to say, otherwise - it could go either way.

Based on the Sylphs, I'm of a mind to say that it's been Tempering (the first definition) for all primals all the time and that "The Drowned" has been a term Lominsans were using since before they knew what tempering was. We seemed to only vaguely understand that tempering existed in 1572 and Leviathan had been creating Serpent Reavers (as far as we can tell) since ten years earlier... except the new beast tribe story for Levaithan, much to my frustration, has nothing to do with their relationship with Leviathan in any way whatsoever as far as I can tell. In fact, it seems to imply that Leviathan had little to do with it in spite of his appearance at exactly the same time as the Sahagin became more violent.

I'm more confused than ever, in some regards.

[Lusavari]

Actually, Moose, Sylphs use the word "Touched" for their kind who have been taken by Ramuh. I think somewhere, there's mention of Titan Crushing his followers. If you read a lot of the story quests from around 25 though, the Sylphs like to say "The Touched-ones" when referring to Ramuh's Sylphs. I think Garuda is the only one who hasn't seen a term used, but it would probably be choked or rasped.

[Anonymoose]

Actually, Moose, Sylphs use the word "Touched" for their kind who have been taken by Ramuh.

That's just the thing - only the sylphs use that word. The non-sylph NPCs, journal entries, and FATE descriptions all call them tempered, which shouldn't be the case if every primal has a unique term attached to their "blessing." Even the mob itself is called Tempered Sylph, akin to the Drowned mobs in La Noscea.

Sylphs tempered in the levin-light of the primal Ramuh have descended into Little Solace to abduct their untempered brethren. Protect the innocent by delivering lightning-swift justice to the perpetrators.

I'm not saying there's not some uniformity here somewhere, I'm just saying that there's way too much ambiguity for me to jump on the bandwagon of "This is Canon." Touched could very well be the true name for it; light can't do much else to you. Then again, the first time they said it, I thought they meant... you know... <taps head> "Touched."

For what it's worth, the Garuda quest uses both terms, and touched is just a general catch-all for what Garuda thinks Hydaelyn does.

Amidst the whirling winds, you succeed in striking down the Lady of the Vortex, only to see her rise once more, reinvigorated by the belief of her Ixali disciples. Yet the beastmen's prayers come to naught when Garuda's attempt to temper you fails, prompting a mysterious force to tear a Crystal of Light from her breast.

That foul stench... I see now... She has touched you!

Still more for Titan, where Wheiskaet, who is determining whether or not you'll be good enough to beat Titan, says that Titan's inability to temper you won't be enough.

Again, not saying there aren't different terms, I'm just saying that if there are, there's not enough consistency for confidence.

[Orophin]

"Tempered"

Maybe "Tempered" is the term the five races generically use while the actual beastmen races have their own word for it. As mentioned in earlier posts, every beast clan except for Garuda has used a different term for their Primal enthralling their associated beastmen followers/kidnapped slaves. (the latter in the case of Ifrit)

[Anonymoose]

If this npc really was tempered, the fact he actually comprehended his situation and actually knew what had happened to him, seems to blow away completely the idea that tempered lose their 'free will' - in actual fact, it seems more accurate that tempering removes a person's will to resist and become docile, while still retaining their consciousness more or less. Or at least, the response of that npc seemed to suggest that.

That or in 2010, the NPC meant the "strengthened with heat" definition of the word and it coincidentally would later carry the "moderate/control" definition for other primals. It's so hard to tell with an ambiguous phrase like that. In the unreleased Titan quest I mentioned earlier, one of the "blessed" Company of Heroes members goes straight from "From dust you came and to dust you shall return!" to "Friend... Father... Bestow upon us your blessing benevolent Lord of Crags!" (translations inexact), so I wouldn't as quick to say they weren't rendered mindlessly enthralled in 1.0, too. Though, part of the quest did say that being claimed by a primal isn't a static effect and some were more dangerous than others.

Maybe "Tempered" is the term the five races generically use while the actual beastmen races have their own word for it.

This would be an interesting way to go about it, though everyone (including the journal and system text) using the Amalj'aa race-specific term is awkward if that's the case. Unless each race would refer to all blessings by that name... would the Sylphs call the Amalj'aa touched? Would the Sahagin say the Amalj'aa drowned in Hellfi-no, that's not right.

Yeah, no, I've still got nothing, lol.

[PArcher]

This would be an interesting way to go about it, though everyone (including the journal and system text) using the Amalj'aa race-specific term is awkward if that's the case. Unless each race would refer to all blessings by that name... would the Sylphs call the Amalj'aa touched? Would the Sahagin say the Amalj'aa drowned in Hellfi-no, that's not right.

Yeah, no, I've still got nothing, lol.

I wonder if the names came about from the way the Primal tempers their new followers; Ifrit bathes them in flames (tempers), Leviathan literally drowns them (in some magical water that doesn't kill them, just changes them), Ramuh may physically touch them, and so on.