The Atma Stigma

[HunnyBuzz]

I have not begun to get my Atma weapon, but I have seen Atma groups rush into a low level areas, clear every fate in the area and leave low level characters without a way to effectively level. The system obviously works, as I have seens thousands of players with the Atma weapons and above. However, the amount of work that goes into gaining the pieces of Atma does not justify the process. The difference between the Zenith and Atma weapons is also almost negligible, with the stats being only a point or two better. The process of farming, not even for a better or newer weapon, just an upgrade, is not appealing to me or other players. Granted, the quests should not be EASY but they should feel rewarding. I have also played games where there are difficult quests for rare prizes, and while they were long and sometimes frustrating, I was never gripped by the overwhelming tedium that goes with Atma farming.

[Machetazzo]

Wow so much drama over one content of the game.

This is MMO, right?
Please name successful MMOs without a single content which is based on low percentage of drops.
Most of MMOs I have played had all end game items based on ridiculous low drop chance and this is the whole point of MMO. It is not a single player game where you could do each content single time to obtain an item, in fact it is designed and intended in absolutely different way - you are supposed to spend hours/days/weeks/month to get it all. At the end of the day companies aim is to keep you subscribing and they are not able to give huge content every week.
It's like clearing a turn in coil would grant all drops for single clearing... wouldn’t be much fun on a long run.

I understand point of people who claim that it is super boring to farm atma without a clear progress indicator (I am not entirely agreeing on this aspect, though).
However, this game has so well developed content where you can progress and this one particular does not require skill, but time and sort of determination, while the other route requires mainly skill (bit of time, too).
Perhaps it could be designed in a measurable way - like actually Novus is - but heck, people still complain about the Novus, dont they?

But isn’t it as simple as that - If you don't like Atma then don't do it and focus on the content that gives you pleasure. If none does then it is not really a game for you, is it?
You can still progress with your gear in coil or levi ex, where you can use your 50lvl skills. Having static is also not the only option, there are multiple linkshells where you can sign in and you can always set up PF (which perhaps will help you to get to know some nice players with whom you can stay in touch and progress).

I don't get the point of people who say they work and have different things to do, hence their time dedicated for work is not equal to others who can farm for days and obtain items quickly.
Well, that is the same case for me and I believe it is healthy, yet, I don't expect to get everything asap and keep up with hardcore players.
I didn’t like atma idea, nor had much time for it, so decided to focus on clearing some coil turns and get back to atma when I feel like. Recently been doing fates when I waited for DF or felt like lying on a couch, watching sport matches and do fates meanwhile.
Now book farming comes and could be whining about that as I don’t have enough time to make it in a week or two, right? Well it will take some time, but I do daily roulettes anyway for soldiery and help FC if needed in HM dungs, so will gather them slowly. Can’t force myself to brayflox SR as I find it personally super boring, so it will bit more time to complete books.

What’s the big problem in all of that? Personally have absolutely none, it is MMO, but not a single developer can please everybody.

Regards,
M

[Nicobo]

....However, the amount of work that goes into gaining the pieces of Atma does not justify the process. The difference between the Zenith and Atma weapons is also almost negligible, with the stats being only a point or two better....

IMO, other than the weapon itself,
I want game completion, obtain the achievement [Taking It to the Stars] , unlock Novus quest, obtain next achievement..etc ^^;

[HunnyBuzz]

Your point of view is very understandable and well thought out, Machetazzo, and I fully agree that rare weapons should be difficult to obtain. However, the current Atma drop rate is around 0.02 - 0.2 percent. I have one friend who bas been working on his Atma since its release and has yet to gain a single piece. I don't know whether this is from sheer bad luck or the drop rate, but I feel that increasing the drop rate to 0.5 or 1% would allow the procurement of Atma to still very challenging, while also ensuring that players are able to gain Atma. My position was never to abolish Atma, it was to teak it ever so slightly that it becomes more accessible to non-power players.

- H

[Kabooa]

Regards,
M

Just one little tidbit here.

I don't think anyone would be complaining if it was some random ass weapon -with the exact stats- that the Atma/Animas/Novus currently has. I can only speak for myself, but the disappointment has nothing to do with not having a shiney ilvl 100 weapon.

It's a failure of expectation and continuation on what was arguably one of the most engaging parts of hitting your end-game Job. That Relic questline was the entire focus of your pre-coil (maybe even mid-coil and post-coil) experience, and each step of that quest certainly felt like you were both making strides and seeing something shape before you. In this regard the presentation made the item (And the fact that there were no i90 alternatives at the time.)

This isn't just one of the three weapons you can go for. It is the weapon the game spent a large amount of development time to make you care about it.

This is my Stardust rod. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. The Allagan wand/shield combo may be better, -but- this is -my- Stardust rod. The Primal weapon may have a "better" stat set up, -but this is my Stardust Rod-. It is not the generic weapon of those available.

The disappointment came not from the item itself, but the presentation.

You don't go unearthing lore about it. You go and farm Atma.
You don't gather the materials, find a crafter, and infuse materia to create a vessel. You go and farm Atma.
You don't go testing the frail and broken vessel. You go and farm Atma.
You don't go defeating mighty foes to bind the weapon to you and resonate within your very soul. -You go and farm atma-
You don't bring down the (at the time) strongest primals in the world to power the forge and infuse the weapon. You go and farm Atma
That's all you do.

You farm Atma from outdated content, and then farm Myth from the -same thing every single day- in order to do even more -outdated content- to make your texture updated weapon glow. I don't see anyone complaining about the time it takes. I see people complaining about how -mind numbingly boring and tedious- it is to do the least engaging content in the game on the -one weapon- the game has invested so much time to make you care about beyond numbers. High Allagan is better. Until your Novus is ready, the restored Soldiery is better.

But all those weapons are transitory and will be gone with the next ilvl patch. Your relic is what remains, and the Relic itself is now gated by a terrible chance and farm mechanic that has no place in -any- game.

For relevant "Low chance drop games" I have played...
Diablo series
Guild Wars
World of Warcraft (arguably)
Aion
Warhammer 40k
SWToR

Diablo is notorious, but disguises it well with the fact that -mountains of loot- is thrown at you to sift through, sell, trade, or use. Aiming for 1 specific item will take weeks, maybe months, certainly. But -it's not the only thing you're getting-.

Guild Wars introduced collectible Set items that provided nothing but guaranteed Maximized properties and sometimes specialty Skins. The weapons, while rare and no guarantee it's your lot when they drop, were -at best- equal to easily acquired weapons and were not given any significance other than a green name. Like a trading card game, some of the fun was simply finding, trading, and collecting.

World of Warcraft is notorious for its "Legendary" items, especially as they usually required the aid of an entire raid team. This only lead to toxic attitudes towards these once-per-expansion-twice-if-you're-lucky items in guilds and provided nothing positive for 99% of the playerbase.

Likewise, in Aion the low drop rates were especially terrible given that the focus of the game was PvP. It did nothing to positively enhance the game other than reinforce already crippling inequalities between the two Factions, and in a game where winning compounds upon winning through gear progression, it was one of the primary reasons the game swelled and then shrank in record time.

Warhammer didn't really have low drop rates which made it easy to gear up and go. The game flopped for other reasons, but easily acquired gear and a low entry barrier for competitive gear standards only helped the game stay afloat when crippling end-game design was continuously @!#%-punting it.

SWToR is another example of easily acquired equipment not negatively impacting the game. However, many of the equipment choices were only for aesthetics due to how you could customize equipment, and you were not given much reason to 'like' or 'care' about Sniper Traffic guard gear when you made a Matrix-esque set for your sniper.

The only thing these gating mechanisms do is attempt to extend content so they have time to develop more. It's burying a cookie in a mountain of !#^@ so they have time to make more cookies. And the worst part is this entire section of the Relic weapon took a really good cookie and -baked the !@#%- directly into it.

It is not only a tedious grind, but an underwhelming pay off, and a glaringly obvious look at why people are always looking for the next game. The formula is tiring and people want something new. They don't want another themepark with long lines. What they want, I can't say for them, but -this- !@#^, the Atma and Novus, is definitely not something I ever want to see again.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Kabooa, I love you. Thank you for this.

[Ferth]

Wall of awesome.

I think Kabooa wins the internet...

[Brill_]

Wow so much drama over one content of the game.

This is MMO, right?
Please name successful MMOs without a single content which is based on low percentage of drops.
Most of MMOs I have played had all end game items based on ridiculous low drop chance and this is the whole point of MMO.

In how many of those MMO were you required to kill level 10 mobs to get the low drop chance? That's my problem with Atma, killing mobs way under my level requires no skill at all. This is a quest that's in the path to get one of the best weapons in the game and I get it by killing mobs 40 levels lower. Atma should be dropping from level 50 content, from stuff that requires one to actually play their job. Not from standing in a low level zone spamming the same skill over and over.

[HunnyBuzz]

In less words than a hallmark greeting card, you have have created a better quest line than whats in the game. You are wonderful!

[the_skip]

I'm just barely here at the atma "grind" portion of the relic quest. And I've been researching it and sad to see people just complaining about this. Now i haven't even collected one yet but just yesterday i started doingdoing fates around the central shroud and of course i don't expect something to drop after an hours worth of fateting....
but this post got me feeling great, this is my first time playing this type of game (mmorpg) I didnt play ff11 sadly but decided to give this game a try, BEST DECISION EVER. Love this game.
Now because of work and life im not playing as much as I was before I'm looking forward to grinding these atma while at the same time getting tomes for my solders armor and items ^-^ and leveling my lower classes... but slow and steady right??... Lol
thanks again.

Ps: quick question, i know it's any random fate no matter the level that could drop the atma piece, so do I have to level sync yes right??