The Atma Stigma

[Duuude007]

the patch containing Novus is getting delayed until they can figure out a way to redo the Animus quest line, Why aren't more people posting angrily that the scrubs complaining about Atma are holding their future content back?

Please, show me where you got this specific quote.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

Atmas don't do anything other than giving your weapon a slightly new coat of paint.

Wrong. They allow you to begin the Animus quests.

You keep saying instant gratification every time someone complains, but I got a feeling you're just saying that towards anyone who don't like how progression and RNG are mixed together.

Because it simply is. They want everything to be as easy as getting the original relic. Which you must realize as of now is a joke what with the echo boost. Even without it, Titan HM is still a joke.

Many have given suggestions on other ways to make Atmas challenging to get but less reliant on RNG drops, yet they're still branded as people who either "want everything with no work" or "lol FF11". I gotten all 12 of my Atmas and I still found them to be BS, not to mention the new Allagan weapons are not only better than the Animus weapons, but are, in a sense, easier to get. How does that make any sense?

How is grinding through X00 amount of FATEs any less challenging than doing Brayflox HM 300 times? I even know people who don't do Bray SRs because they're so tired of it. In the end, we end up with the community getting Goldilocks syndrome, i.e. "this porridge is too hot/cold," but it will never be "just right." As I posted earlier, how would people feel, spending all their time grinding for atmas, only to be told "next month we're giving everyone all 12 atmas for free via moogle mail!" ? And how is getting the Allagan/Tidal weapons not RNG? You're not guaranteed the drop you want, and even if you did happen to come upon the drop you want, there's always a chance someone may be playing the same class as you who also wants said drop, so you'd have to roll against them on the item, thus forcing another RNG component to decide who gets what.

Some people want RNG, some people don't. I'm neither for or against it. What I'm in favor of is sticking through how the game is designed, albeit it being a poorly thought out one.

Hell, despite Square outright stating that the number of people who gotten Animus is extremely low and that the patch containing Novus is getting delayed until they can figure out a way to redo the Animus quest line, Why aren't more people posting angrily that the scrubs complaining about Atma are holding their future content back?

Because they've been given word that it will come eventually. Those that have Animus just have to sit back and wait. Which, in the meantime I'm sure they're doing T7-9 already. Also, SE never said ANYTHING about nerfing the atma/animus line. What they said was they were taking all the feedback FROM the questline and figuring out how to make the Novus quests better.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/162520

I know some of our players have been looking forward to the continuation of the Zodiac Weapons quests that I mentioned in the recent letter LIVE, but the release of these new quests has been postponed. Our reasoning for this decision is, in brief:

Many players still have yet to obtain an Animus weapon.
We would like to incorporate feedback regarding the difficulty of the Zodiac Weapon quests.
We are working to increase the number of locations where materials for the next upgrade can be obtained.

Nothing about atma/animus. Reads more about the Novus quests.

[Mark83x]

Atma , how it should be. A solo instance designed specifically for your class. difficulty depent on item level. (gear locked,so you cant join low geared and switch when in) and make it very very difficult.
If determined too make people grind, then make them grind mobs for Xamount of items too gain access too each 1.

[moudoka]

It's really easy to sit back after you have your Atma, and say "just stick with it" and so on. What people are failing to understand (for some reason) is that the entire atma system is broke. By broken, I mean it relies on a system that is dysfunctional at best, and downright evil at it's worst. I'm pushing 300 Fates with nothing. Not one Atma. I've been farming the SAME ZONE for a week. Nothing. Explain to me how this is supposed to challenge me? I'm doing only level 45-50 fates in Zan'rak, so I don't feel totally wasted de-leveling my level 50. With such a pathetically low drop rate, there is NO way of gauging progress. It's all based on the very, very terrible RNG system. Coming from someone who does not have their atma, I believe this system is complete bullshit. I play a few hours after work each day, do my beast tribe quests, and hit the fates while doing that. I've essentially got a 0% drop rate. 0. ZERO.

People need to stop defending this.

[Ferth]

It's great that you can delude yourself into engaging in really half assed content. You miss all he shots you don't take, but there is a world of difference in learning a skill and then using that skill effectively. Playing hockey is a skill and when you practice a skill you improve. Atma is the equivalent of putting a blind fold on, spinning around a few times and then trying to take a shot. There's no guarantee you are even going to hit the puck let alone get it anywhere near the goal.

Atma is nothing more than a very thinly veiled Skinner box. Which I suppose can be said about the MMO genre as a whole, these days. But atleast most other content tries to disguise it better. If you are willing to do it, bully for you. But don't try to pretend it's good or that you achieved anything. It will just make SE think this kind of crap is acceptable.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

It's great that you can delude yourself into engaging in really half assed content. You miss all he shots you don't take, but there is a world of difference in learning a skill and then using that skill effectively. Playing hockey is a skill and when you practice a skill you improve. Atma is the equivalent of putting a blind fold on, spinning around a few times and then trying to take a shot. There's no guarantee you are even going to hit the puck let alone get it anywhere near the goal.

Atma is nothing more than a very thinly veiled Skinner box. Which I suppose can be said about the MMO genre as a whole, these days. But atleast most other content tries to disguise it better. If you are willing to do it, bully for you. But don't try to pretend it's good or that you achieved anything. It will just make SE think this kind of crap is acceptable.

I did achieve something. I got my atma weapons. People seem to keep missing the fact that I didn't give up just because I wasn't getting the drop after X00 amounts of FATEs. I'm even working toward getting my Monk prepped for atma, and even then, I've been at it for about 3 hours each day, give or take, over the past week and only have 3 atma to show for it. But that's not discouraging me from actually doing it. If anything, I'm actually working toward the 3K FATE achievement cause I want that Paragon's Gown. Getting atmas is just a side perk now.

And how is running low-level FATEs any different than running for low-level dungeons? You're still locked out of your skill sets, you still get some small measure of reward and you're still playing with other people. If anything, FATEs seem more like they were designed for the newer type of MMO players (the ones that just want to do something fast and not be bothered with long que times or length of dungeon runs).

If this kind of "crap" wasn't "acceptable" then FFXI wouldn't still be alive. Frankly, we should all just be happy that SE decided to GIVE us FFXIV. Unlike those pricks at SEGA JP who decided they wanted to alienate their US fan base. And really, who are we to complain? I don't see any of us making an MMO for an international fan base.

[Hulft]

I'm the only one who thinks Atmas are okay? :U
I already have Animus on my PLD, got Atma for my Monk and already have one atma for a third weapon. Oh well xP
Reinhart may have everything atma by now lol

[SorriorDragneel]

Simple solution i once saw..Add a stacking buff maybe every day you don't get one(or every say few fates) that caps at say a 75% increase)but increases by only 1% per fate or something like that. That way you STILL have to farm but can then beat the RNG.

[Vesuvias]

I love how everyone of the atma supporters can't seem to realize that this isnt FFXI, they are different games that cater to different kinds of players. FFXI is also much older and is a lot less designed for casuals, where in a lot of ways FFXIV caters to casuals. Yes you have your instances such as coils and ex primals, but they only make up for a fraction of the actual content in this game.

Also i would like to point out that it is great that an atma weapon is the end and the achievement. but to me i look at it and go "yay i get a Zenith weapon with an inflated ilvl.... that wasnt worth the 2 weeks of grinding..." for what you get atma should be able to be done in a couple of days easily (yes fate grinds are easy as hell, but rng kills it) then animus which is actually a stat increase and can be seen as a worth while grind, versus the stupidity that is the atma fate grind. but again, with the books i can actually pull up my book and its progress and go oh i need to do X fate. so i go sit there and wait for it to spawn. then boom im done with my book, and have to do my myth grind again. with animus i can see the light and the end of the bloody tunnel. with Atma.... is this going to take 2 hours... or am i never going to get the drops i need.

but for the record since you seem to think this is a trial of attrition i have put in about 5 days worth of nonstop grinding (not all at once mind you but rather 120 hours of grinding for my 6th Atma and i havent seen it drop. ive swapped zones, ive use the Japanese theory, none of it has gotten it to drop. but frankly this as killed my enjoyment of this game to some degree, and i know im not alone.

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

I love how everyone of the atma supporters can't seem to realize that this isnt FFXI, they are different games that cater to different kinds of players. FFXI is also much older and is a lot less designed for casuals, where in a lot of ways FFXIV caters to casuals. Yes you have your instances such as coils and ex primals, but they only make up for a fraction of the actual content in this game.

Also i would like to point out that it is great that an atma weapon is the end and the achievement. but to me i look at it and go "yay i get a Zenith weapon with an inflated ilvl.... that wasnt worth the 2 weeks of grinding..." for what you get atma should be able to be done in a couple of days easily (yes fate grinds are easy as hell, but rng kills it) then animus which is actually a stat increase and can be seen as a worth while grind, versus the stupidity that is the atma fate grind. but again, with the books i can actually pull up my book and its progress and go oh i need to do X fate. so i go sit there and wait for it to spawn. then boom im done with my book, and have to do my myth grind again. with animus i can see the light and the end of the bloody tunnel. with Atma.... is this going to take 2 hours... or am i never going to get the drops i need.

but for the record since you seem to think this is a trial of attrition i have put in about 5 days worth of nonstop grinding (not all at once mind you but rather 120 hours of grinding for my 6th Atma and i havent seen it drop. ive swapped zones, ive use the Japanese theory, none of it has gotten it to drop. but frankly this as killed my enjoyment of this game to some degree, and i know im not alone.

I can understand the frustration in not getting the drop in a "reasonable" amount of time. But this whole nonsense of tracking progress, how can you NOT track it? The atmas go into your inventory and you're done with that zone. Would you go to say a Starbucks, order something, they give it to you and then you sit there and think "Gee, I wonder when I'll get my coffee?" No.

You complain about 5 days? It took me since atmas were introduced to even get a full set. I spent 4-5 hours a day on weekdays, 8+ on weekends trying to get the North Shroud one to drop. And STRICTLY doing nothing but FATE grinds through those hours. I'm sure you understand how depressing it is when your FC mates (provided you are in an FC) hit chat up with invites to Coil/etc. and you have to give them the Mr. Popo ultimatum. After a while I just got tired of not interacting with them, so I did FATEs less and less. Eventually I got my full set, but as I keep stressing, it was because I didn't just give up.

And as others have mentioned on other threads, atma/animus isn't NEEDED for things. Atma/Animus wasn't around when T5 was going on, why would you need it now? Even the new Turns, people are just using their T5 weapons/LeviEX weapons.

I'm not saying this questline should ALWAYS be based on RNG components. Because if you make it any easier to get atmas, then you're going to have the people who put in WAY more hours to get theirs complain that they felt they HAD to put in the work they did, only to see others just drop by some place and pick up their drops free of charge. As I said before, we're just going to end up with Goldilocks syndrome. You just can't win either way.

You mention that atma is an "end-achievement," so why should it be achievable in a matter of mere days? That's like saying Coil T9 should be achievable in 2 days. And I'm using T9 specifically as it provides end-game items. For those that put in the work to clear it, do you think that would be fair to them?

For those who keep bringing up the FFXI argument; I never played XI. For those who did, they relay that getting their mythic/relic weapon was WAY harder than this.