Switching from PLD to WAR and need advice

[Pinkie_Pie]

Also to might add, as a warrior, you will notice the boss will die alot faster due to your dps added with the right rotation.

[kukurumei]

Also to might add, as a warrior, you will notice the boss will die alot faster due to your dps added with the right rotation.

Not that significantly, It shaves a few here and there, but in the greater scheme of things, the DPS is still going to carry the bulk of the damage. They maybe useful if you have to burn something down really quick mechanic, but SE more or less made it so that it can be burned without wars anyway.

The greatest resource of going from pld to war, is that you have a lot more control over the situation, and not get caught defenseless. Face tanking sucks but you have to remember War face tanking almost always comes out pretty decently. Storms path is a straight up reduction, IB is free and works proactively and reactively, soaking damage is easy. Foresight is up a lot for what it's worth, blood bath does a decent upkeep.

But they lack any oh-crap button, as vengeance is often ration to nearly a HG level, so a war just has to pray, because they will always have to rely on continuous healer support, unlike a pld that can live a super long time by himself.

Wars are basically perfect for a meat shield, while the pld does the heavy lifting when the time comes (super hits, fancy strategies, stalling for time, etc)

Most content Wars have to be content with the fact they simply can't do fancy stuff like PLD, and yell "Bring on the pain" from the monster.

Stuff is going to hurt, no way around it.

[Kitru]

Wars are basically perfect for a meat shield, while the pld does the heavy lifting when the time comes (super hits, fancy strategies, stalling for time, etc)

You must not run with any *good* WARs. I'm perfectly capable of doing everything you listed there and, barring strats that absolutely *require* HG (and very few strats *require* HG; they simply do well with it), I generally do them *better* than PLDs. WAR is all about using the tools you've got actively whereas PLD is more about holding on to them until they're absolutely required. The only time you're going to see a WAR get outperformed by a PLD is when that WAR is an idiot who tries to play it like it's a PLD (e.g. "ration Vengeance to a nearly HG level"; it's on a 2 min CD so that's just dumb).

[kukurumei]

You must not run with any *good* WARs. I'm perfectly capable of doing everything you listed there and, barring strats that absolutely *require* HG (and very few strats *require* HG; they simply do well with it), I generally do them *better* than PLDs. WAR is all about using the tools you've got actively whereas PLD is more about holding on to them until they're absolutely required. The only time you're going to see a WAR get outperformed by a PLD is when that WAR is an idiot who tries to play it like it's a PLD (e.g. "ration Vengeance to a nearly HG level"; it's on a 2 min CD so that's just dumb).

And a better pld wil beat you. End game is about burst damage. It's not whether you're vengence 1k attacks or 4k attack or even 5k attacks. It's when you get that "one shot" attack that wipes pt.

And yes ration your vengeance where necessary because you need it when you need it, No "I got nothing". A pld can say "I've got nothing" HG. A war can not say "I have nothing". There are loads of times you will need that vengeance during the fight. If the fight goes faster or slower and your vengeance is not up, well that sucks.

In most hard content there are "critical times your vengeance should be up" they are very usually also the time "a HG should be up".

[Kitru]

And a better pld wil beat you. End game is about burst damage.

If you want to talk burst damage, there's but one thing that needs to be said: Inner Beast. End of discussion.

[kukurumei]

If you want to talk burst damage, there's but one thing that needs to be said: Inner Beast. End of discussion.

IB is bread and butter. your point? That's nothing compared to pld side.

foresight is foresight
IB = rampart
vengeance < sentinel
nothing - HG

When the critical moments in the fight comes, a PLD has all those on rotation and the HG (not to mention self stoneskin if it's not a threat race) .A war doesn't have that luxury, Best a war can do is IB + vengeance (sub standard to a HG) but that's all we have. It must be up.

[Kitru]

foresight is foresight
IB = rampart
vengeance < sentinel
nothing - HG

So where are ToB and Holmgang? If you're going to talk about burst damage mitigation, you need to actually include everything that applies.

IB is going to be up for *every single burst event*. Rampart is not, no matter how good you are. For WAR v. PLD, you have to compare IB + (insert CD) against whatever CD PLD is going to be using.

IB + Foresight > Foresight
IB + 20% Conv > 30% Conv
IB + Vengeance > Sentinel (and Vengeance is available every 3 minutes instead of 3 and lasts 5 seconds longer)
IB + ToB > Rampart (same DR, but ToB gives you an extra 20% hp)
Holmgang < HG

There are 2 cases where a PLD beats a WAR for burst damage survival: when you have to use your uber-CD or you're layering multiple CDs on top of each other (which only applies to certain combinations). At most, you'll have the HG once per fight, and, if you have to layer multiple CDs on top of each other, you're making it so that you can't survive something later on, which is going to hurt your burst mitigation.

[Instrumentality]

WAR is all about using the tools you've got actively whereas PLD is more about holding on to them until they're absolutely required. .

People say this a lot and they are always wrong. Paladins rotate cooldowns throughout the entire fight. There is no point in time outside of Tank Kill mechanics on turn 9 where you absolutely must save a cooldown to survive. And even then you can mitigate them by swapping tanks halfway through Claw and swapping after Ravensbeak.

I have never had to 'save' a cooldown until it's required on a boss (again outside of turn 9). You use them based on the situation you're in while taking into consideration your incoming damage, your raid's incoming unavoidable damage, and your healer's mana and throughput with movement requirements. There is nothing required about popping Rampart/Awareness when the first Deathdancer spawns on turn 7 to smooth out my incoming damage, but it is very helpful to ensure that my incoming damage is both smooth and efficiently mitigated while healers are handling healing two targets at once, as an example.