Changing Class in Dungeons

[Daenerys_Sedai]

How can it be abused if people are suggesting a vote option.

Search forums for "Vote Kick" and "Vote Abandon" and all the problems that have arisen there..

[L-D-Omlette]

Search forums for "Vote Kick" and "Vote Abandon" and all the problems that have arisen there..

These are completely different though. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Job change would have to be triggered by the person requesting to change, not by someone trying to force another to change. I think Skivvy pretty much nailed it to prevent abuse.

-Only allow a job change when a member is missing
-Make the party vote to approve the change
-Don't allow a job change when there is loot on the table

I would adjust the last to encompass all of the same logic used to determine when vote kicking is locked, but this would prevent the vast majority of potential abuses.

[Daenerys_Sedai]

These are completely different though. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Job change would have to be triggered by the person requesting to change, not by someone trying to force another to change..

While dissimilar in implementation, the abuse still operates the same in that: you have a group of say 5 FC members who want an individual member to get loot. Whether it's a vote to allow that member to change to said job or to kick someone they don't want getting the loot, they still hold the majority.
That's not to say that there isn't a solution or workaround, but as we know, solutions usually come after the abuse has run for a few weeks

[L-D-Omlette]

While dissimilar in implementation, the abuse still operates the same in that: you have a group of say 5 FC members who want an individual member to get loot. Whether it's a vote to allow that member to change to said job or to kick someone they don't want getting the loot, they still hold the majority.
That's not to say that there isn't a solution or workaround, but as we know, solutions usually come after the abuse has run for a few weeks

The only scenario I can think of would be if I volunteer to switch say, from dps to tank/healer, they say no, and a 6th member from the FC gets in as the role I was denied. How is this an issue? I would think that players would be less likely to be upset in this situation since they are completing the content on the job they originally wanted to. I fail to see how a group could use this to monopolize loot drops, especially when taking the suggested rules of implementation into account.

Would love to see some examples, since that would be the best way to be proactive about potential solutions.

[Jinko]

Search forums for "Vote Kick" and "Vote Abandon" and all the problems that have arisen there..

It's not the same ..

People are saying it will be abused when people want an item and will change class to ninja the item, but you can't do that as you would be required to ask your party if its ok to change class.

There is no problem here.

In short, 1.0 class stacking should come again
Kill trash mobs with all dps as BLM, switch to MNK at the endboss. Keep out of party if you don't have BLM or MNK.

Except we are talking about DF here, premade parties work differently.

I guess the best solution to this would be, if a player leaves the party allow players to change class before requesting a new player.

I've dealt with this mechanic in DCUO.
Someone queues as a tank or healer to get a quick instance pop and then switches to dps.
More often than not one of the dps then agree to switch to heals rather than wait even longer for another healer.
The abuser gets a fast queue time and makes someone who has waited patiently to play as DPS switch to something they didn't want to play.

If someone was to do this three or four times before not getting kicked they would still get a group much quicker as a dps.

Everyone should realize in 2014 that if a MMO mechanic can be abused/exploited it will.

Again !!

People aren't reading the whole thread, for someone to change class they would need to ask the permission of the party first so it would not create this situation.

[Daenerys_Sedai]

It's not the same ..

People are saying it will be abused when people want an item and will change class to ninja the item, but you can't do that as you would be required to ask your party if its ok to change class.

There is no problem here.

Again !!

People aren't reading the whole thread, for someone to change class they would need to ask the permission of the party first so it would not create this situation.

I'm not sure you're reading the whole thread either. Yes, people aren't going to be able to ninja change. That's not what people are saying. They're bringing up instances where there are FCs who will PUG 2 people then allow one of their own to change jobs to the detriment of those 2 PUGs.

ANYWAY
I am not opposed to this. Never said i was. Just observing that there's going to be potential for abuse and that we're bound to see it if it is implemented.

[Felis]

Except we are talking about DF here, premade parties work differently.

"Ok, guys, we do plan x here. It is the easiest and fastest way. All DPS change to BLM to kill the trash mobs with some AoE. Then at the endboss back to melee except to DRG for focused damage. If you are not ok wih it, you get vote-kicked"

People already force speedrun to the others in a DF party. This would be also forced to the other players in the DF.

[Garlyle]

"Ok, guys, we do plan x here. It is the easiest and fastest way. All DPS change to BLM to kill the trash mobs with some AoE. Then at the endboss back to melee except to DRG for focused damage. If you are not ok wih it, you get vote-kicked"

This is where I see the biggest issue coming from. "what do you mean you don't have every class levelled, **** this I'm out this'll take too long see ya noob". "wtf are you scholar here switch to ur white mage goddamn" etc.

[Legionius]

"Ok, guys, we do plan x here. It is the easiest and fastest way. All DPS change to BLM to kill the trash mobs with some AoE. Then at the endboss back to melee except to DRG for focused damage. If you are not ok wih it, you get vote-kicked"

People already force speedrun to the others in a DF party. This would be also forced to the other players in the DF.

The odds of that vote kick passing in DF if someone is trying to help the party are extremely slim. If you actually think people are going to have the power to tell people what to or how to play in a random environment, I suggest you get a Catscan immediately. People already don't listen to anything they don't want to hear.

[Garlyle]

The odds of that vote kick passing in DF if someone is trying to help the party are extremely slim. If you actually think people are going to have the power to tell people what to or how to play in a random environment, I suggest you get a Catscan immediately. People already don't listen to anything they don't want to hear.

Whether they have the power to actually make it go through, won't change the fact they can - and someone inevitably will - attempt it. And even if the other three players are totally fine people, they're gonna be walking out with a negative impression of the others, because people naturally remember negative experiences more than positive ones.

This isn't to say the system can't be done, but it all has to be considered carefully. We got Vote Kick to deal with jerk players or AFKs; but it was weakly implemented with no real 'punishment', so people go "okay I'm out kick me or I'll just sit here AFK". Which then became a problem that creates negative experiences.

MMOs - RPG or otherwise - can live or die based on the community they have. More specifically, the perceptions of that community. People don't like playing a game if they have to play with other people and their experience is that other people are jerks; even if it's only 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 players they play with that are jerks, they're going to be the ones remembered and it feels like a larger problem. Establish that "the community is kinda crappy" to someone, and those players stand out even more.

And then those players quit.

Ok it's easy
A. You can only change to needed class/class who left
B.a player has to volunteer to change
C.others vote on change
D.cant change while loot is open

This, for instance, is a much more thurough variant addressing concerns that have been brought up.