Echo

[sheepysheepy]

Winning the fight in general: Dealing X% more DPS means the fight is X% shorter. Therefore, fewer chances to make mistakes. You're also pushing phases, resulting in fewer mechanics to deal with.

So please, don't claim that Echo doesn't make this fight considerably easier. You're failing to acknowledge everything other than the first three points listed above, which is a really ignorant thing to do. Apply this same logic to every other fight in the game. Echo buff is OP.

On the other hand the fight was well-tuned and a pretty easy 'dance' to learn, and now the phaseshifts can be very messy and you have to be pretty careful how much dps you're doing at certain points, to the point that i had a better chance of winning before 2.2

[Rufalus]

You don't really get enough echo to help players who don't have good teams catch up. Only on the fights older than 6 months do you get 50% echo which makes a difference. The 25% on extreme primals and current 15% on old coils isn't really making a difference. Nobody in my FC has beaten T5 or Ifrit extreme yet, while the top raiders are already farming the last turn of second coil for i115 weapons, so I think the gap between players is still getting wider. I couldn't expect to beat the last turn of second coil until maybe 1 year from now, dependant on the amount of adjustments that are made, as I have no elite static and rely on DF for random player parties so the content has to tolerate people making mistakes and not working perfectly together as a team.

[Lemon8or]

On the other hand the fight was well-tuned and a pretty easy 'dance' to learn, and now the phaseshifts can be very messy and you have to be pretty careful how much dps you're doing at certain points, to the point that i had a better chance of winning before 2.2

Depends. Before 2.2, other people in my FC couldn't kill heart before circle bomb which leads to the ermergerd moments when that and landslide comes out and people still try to kill the heart. If you're already killing titan before 2.2, you won't even need 5% echo.

so the content has to tolerate people making mistakes and not working perfectly together as a team.

Not Coil or coil 2. Raid contents have always been aimed towards people that work as a team to perfection. Otherwise, where's the challenge for them? The echo helps put your minds away from DPS/heal check and focus on executing mechanics.

[RyuDragnier]

Because I have as much time to be on the game as you, to run and clear Coil 1245 all day every day for 2 weeks to get all my loot before the nerf. Delusional.

You're proving yourself to be the fool. The first time I ever stepped into Coil was back when I main'd BRD, and in 1 night I got from T1 to T5 (we didn't complete T5) with pugs, and while wearing full Darklight. The turns themselves were easy, even then as long as you knew what you needed to do.The only person who stopped you from pulling that off was you, because you didn't want to do it because you thought you HAD to have a static. And now you're complaining because you think the echo is mandatory and not optional. You're a fool.

[Alcyon1]

If they win, no need of echo.
If they die, echo won't help them for that. As far as I know, tanks are the only ones who can survive the 5 plumes.

False. We helped some friends who started the game late, and echo on Titan EX helps a lot. 2 weeks ago, 2 of them were ready for Titan EX while we were raiding. They weren't really lucky with pugs, after 2h of tries, they never killed the heart. We had 2 possibilities :
1) Do 2 separate runs, they would probably die just after the heart and we would finish the fight with 3 DPS.
2) Take both of them, they have 2/3 tries after the heart and when the echo buff is strong enough, we would finish the fight with 2 DPS.

[Kuwagami]

False. We helped some friends who started the game late, and echo on Titan EX helps a lot. 2 weeks ago, 2 of them were ready for Titan EX while we were raiding. They weren't really lucky with pugs, after 2h of tries, they never killed the heart. We had 2 possibilities :
1) Do 2 separate runs, they would probably die just after the heart and we would finish the fight with 3 DPS.
2) Take both of them, they have 2/3 tries after the heart and when the echo buff is strong enough, we would finish the fight with 2 DPS.

That's carrying players and it doesn't prove my statement to be false. Without echo they would have learned the after heart instead of being carried and won without it eventually. Echo just helped you carrying the 2 of them in one shot, which isn't really proving that "echo helps anyone beating the fight". It merely proves you can now merc 2 people at once instead of one by one.

[Rex]

If echo was used to move ahead players so they don't fall behind why is it used so quickly on newer content? Also why is there no bonus rewards for winning with echo turned off? Echo is fine but takes the fun and challenge away from current players and especially new players that just started.

Echo is only on previous patch content.