Echo

[Hyperia]

I would like to propose that the Echo buff be modified to add 0.25 seconds per stack to allow players to avoid an AOE in an Echo buffed fight. Titan fights are a perfect example of where this would significantly improve quality of life for people with slow internet connections, long distance issues (Europe and Pacific countries) and hardware issues on their system.

1 stack - AOEs have 0.25 seconds added
2 stacks - 0.50 seconds added
3 stacks - 0.75 seconds added
4 stacks - 1.00 seconds added
5 stacks - 1.25 seconds added

At 5 stacks with a 1.25 second grace period, that should allow more people to get out of the way and compensate for up to 1500 ms latency issues, the "I was out of it" problem. If metrics show that there are still issues with people getting out of the AOE, SE could, on a later patch, buff the first stack to start at 0.5 rather than 0.25. SE could keep buffing the first stack until they get the results they desire on player completion.

[Zaero]

People always forget that you can remove the buff if you want to play without it.

I just find it funny how many people will puff their chests and go "LOLECHO Easy Mode Time", and yet never remove it (Yes, I've done that and I've challenged those folks to do so....they shrink away real quick). That said, I like that Echo exists for those who had not yet run the old content before. However, even at 25%, Titan Ex isn't a guaranteed kill if they players don't have the skills.

BUUUUUT, people always default to the "easy way". Example, everything needs to a guaranteed win. Just internet nature I guess.

[Moqi]

Echo is a great help but hard mechanics will still be hard, it's just easier to pass dps checks and recover from hits.

[Alcyon1]

Echo can be seen as "more stuff" and that's all.

[Lemon8or]

Thanks to Echo, I've been able to get several members of our FC through turn 5 and Titan EX so it does help. People still need to execute mechanics but now they can focus on it and worry less about DPS/heal check.

[ColorOfSakura]

The Echo basically lowers the restrictions of DPS and Heal checks in harder fights and that's all. The players still have to know what they're doing. The Echo doesn't magically make it so that you aren't going to die to things like bombs and plumes or twisters.

Case in point: I ran Titan HM for a relic this weekend and we managed to get past the heart phase of Titan without the Echo but still wiped due to people just not getting out of the way of stuff. We ended up wiping like three times. Even with the increased heal potency and damage, people still died because they weren't moving out of the way. The Echo simply made it easier to kill the heart and burn Titan down a little faster, but it didn't make the rest of the mechanics any easier to deal with.

That said I ran it the next day and we beat him after only one wipe.

No amount of increased HP, heal potency, or damage is going to keep the party alive for very long if people aren't doing what the fight requires of them.

[bokchoykn]

Titan EX with Echo

• Getting hit by Landslide: Will still knock you off the platform.
• Getting hit by 3+ plumes: Will still kill you.
• Not moving properly for Gaols: Will still probably kill one of you.

• Getting hit by a bomb: Less likely to kill you with the HP boost from Echo.
• Mountain Buster on Tank: Easier with HP and healing boost from Echo. If the tank is not topped off, got hit by bombs, or is not using defensive cooldowns properly, Echo buff might pull you through.
• Meeting DPS checks (Heart, Gaols, Gaolers, Bomb, Enrage): Much easier with DPS boost from Echo. Your chances of salvaging a win when you've lost a DPS (or two) improves considerably.
• Solo tanking when the other tank fell off the platform: Easier to survive 3+ Buster stacks with the HP boost from Echo.
• Solo healing when the other healer fell off the platform: Easier to manage with the Healing boost from Echo.
• Winning the fight in general: Dealing X% more DPS means the fight is X% shorter. Therefore, fewer chances to make mistakes. You're also pushing phases, resulting in fewer mechanics to deal with.

So please, don't claim that Echo doesn't make this fight considerably easier. You're failing to acknowledge everything other than the first three points listed above, which is a really ignorant thing to do. Apply this same logic to every other fight in the game. Echo buff is OP.

[Kuwagami]

@Kuwagami white knight alert. You have no idea why I didn't do Coil 1-5 before it got put in Duty Finder. Having the lockout removed helped me gain access to the content, as I didn't have a static. I just didn't appreciate the Echo buff so soon. Congrats for finding a non-Echo team, I'm sure because you tested it, it's going to become the norm to set up/find non-Echo parties (@RyuDragnier this is how you do sarcasm). Most (yes I don't have a %) people won't remove Echo, admit it.

Not agreeing with your point of view doesn't make me a white knight.
Indeed I have no idea why you didn't get to Coil. Everyone have their reasons. Yet, you had the possibility. You didn't even have to wait for DF to come, as PF parties filled pretty fast in 2.1 (you just had to be sure that noone was trying to troll you and lock you in T3+ but that's an other problem...)

As Versiroth said, you *COULD* have had 1 or 2 tries a day on T1/T2 (just example here) and in 2 weeks you'd have 3 month worth of experience prior to 2.2. Getting or not all your gear is not the question here (coming from someone without a loot in month. I had to wait lockout removal to get what I needed). Just experience.


Also, it's not because I found a non-echo team that it will be the norm. It just shows that people are willing to do it, and that you can get a team for it. And true enough, people in DF won't remove it (got a few exception to ease phase switch in Titan Ex but that's an other case). Yet in PF they will. Because they joined a "non echo team". That's the difference.

Lastly, please, stop the "I don't have a static" excuse. You may have random schedules preventing you from joining a static, it never was a "no static no access" problem. I can't count the number of groups with 100% pugs because people don't have any statics. Even on T6/T7, I know for sure around 4 full groups of PUGs (which makes them some sort of semi statics I guess ? well, they just happen to play together as they are only a few at the moment). Noone prevented you to join/form a group but yourself.
(Please note that I'm not trying to be mean...)

Titan EX with Echo

• Getting hit by Landslide: Will still knock you off the platform.
• Getting hit by 3+ plumes: Will still kill you.
• Not moving properly for Gaols: Will still probably kill one of you.

Sadly enough, these are the only point that matters for Titan Ex. There aren't many groups that can get to enrage, because they wipe/win before it.
If they win, no need of echo.
If they die, echo won't help them for that. As far as I know, tanks are the only ones who can survive the 5 plumes.

[Alcyon1]

If they win, no need of echo.
If they die, echo won't help them for that. As far as I know, tanks are the only ones who can survive the 5 plumes.

False. We helped some friends who started the game late, and echo on Titan EX helps a lot. 2 weeks ago, 2 of them were ready for Titan EX while we were raiding. They weren't really lucky with pugs, after 2h of tries, they never killed the heart. We had 2 possibilities :
1) Do 2 separate runs, they would probably die just after the heart and we would finish the fight with 3 DPS.
2) Take both of them, they have 2/3 tries after the heart and when the echo buff is strong enough, we would finish the fight with 2 DPS.

[Kuwagami]

False. We helped some friends who started the game late, and echo on Titan EX helps a lot. 2 weeks ago, 2 of them were ready for Titan EX while we were raiding. They weren't really lucky with pugs, after 2h of tries, they never killed the heart. We had 2 possibilities :
1) Do 2 separate runs, they would probably die just after the heart and we would finish the fight with 3 DPS.
2) Take both of them, they have 2/3 tries after the heart and when the echo buff is strong enough, we would finish the fight with 2 DPS.

That's carrying players and it doesn't prove my statement to be false. Without echo they would have learned the after heart instead of being carried and won without it eventually. Echo just helped you carrying the 2 of them in one shot, which isn't really proving that "echo helps anyone beating the fight". It merely proves you can now merc 2 people at once instead of one by one.