Echo

[Mastanight]

If echo was used to move ahead players so they don't fall behind why is it used so quickly on newer content? Also why is there no bonus rewards for winning with echo turned off? Echo is fine but takes the fun and challenge away from current players and especially new players that just started.

[Lollie]

The reward for completion with it turned off you already stated, a more challenging fight. Nothing is stopping anyone from making a "no echo" group in pf if that is how you want to play. Not everyones goal is a challenging fight though. On a side note they did a nice job with incorporating technique and dps checks into most fights. Even with echo if a group does not have the technique down it is going to fail.

[Kuwagami]

If echo was used to move ahead players so they don't fall behind why is it used so quickly on newer content? Also why is there no bonus rewards for winning with echo turned off? Echo is fine but takes the fun and challenge away from current players and especially new players that just started.

1) bring new player to Titan Ex
2) try to even get one stack of echo
2 bis) if you manage to get stacks of echo, look how much your party is going to fail because of it
3) come complain again about how echo is removing challenge/

Echo doesn't remove anything. At best it eases dps check on some fights.

[bokchoykn]

Echo doesn't remove anything.

You can't be serious.

5% HP boost, 5% Damage boost, 5% Heal boost is apparently "nothing". Yet, everyone foams at the mouth at the tiniest gear upgrade that they apparently "OMFGNEED". This is rich.

Echo trivializes so many of the natural tanking/DPS/healing challenges that each fight presents. While the other mechanics of the fight still need to be dealt with, you can't possibly deny the massive advantage Echo buff gives you. It obviously won't save you from certain mechanics, but even a 5% Echo buff massively increases the margins of error for your group.

Think about that one elusive gear upgrade that you've been desperately chasing for so long, whatever piece that may be. Now, realize that it gives you merely a FRACTION of what a 5% echo buff gives. Then tell us again about how Echo buff is so insignificant.

I'm not going to comment on whether Echo was a good or bad idea, but I don't know how you people can downplaying the benefits of Echo. It's actually pretty ridiculous.

[juniglee]

Depending on how you see it, Echo could also end up becoming a drawback as well.

Increase damage means you are pushing phases faster, and in fights like Titan, Ifrit, and Leviathan which is phase oriented, pushing a phase too fast might lead to unintended wipes.

[RyuDragnier]

I see the Echo as lowering the checks on the party more than anything. But it cannot save a party that does not know the mechanics of the fight. Have full echo bonus? Too bad, because people don't know how to dodge the 1-shot mechanics, they die anyway. As I've said time and time again, the Echo does not help those who do not know the mechanics. This is the intended flaw of the Echo, it cannot nor will allow those who don't know the mechanics to pass the fight.

[Akujin]

Echo is there to give people a handicap when normal ability falls short. Honestly I have nothing against it, but in some content, skill still overrides handicaps.

Most relevant story to that end. Last week I got into a Titan Hard through Trial Roulette. A couple people looked as if they were possibly doing it for their Relic quest due to their weapons they had, or they already cleared it and were simply running roulettes, regardless, we ended up having a 20% echo boost due to two wipes. The end result of that match, was both tanks, a scholar healer and myself (blm) as the only surviving members of the entire party to finish it off. So despite a 20% increase to dps, hp and curative spell potency, people were still dying to landslides, weights and bombs regardless. Echo takes some of the pressure off, it does not remove the task itself.

[ToffeeCoffee]

To go from Coil being quite unaccessible for many due to the lockout, to then going into Party Finder, to then having Echo applied so soon is offensive to those who couldn't find a static to do it with. Yes you can remove it but there's no need to be a hero.

They simply should not have introduced Echo to Coil or Extreme Primals SO soon.
Give people a chance to clear the content properly with the stupid lockout removed first.
If the intended purpose of the Echo is to progress players faster to endgame content, then get rid of the dumb lockout on Coil 2 so more people can attempt it.

[Versiroth]

To go from Coil being quite unaccessible for many due to the lockout, to then going into Party Finder, to then having Echo applied so soon is offensive to those who couldn't find a static to do it with. Yes you can remove it but there's no need to be a hero.

They simply should not have introduced Echo to Coil or Extreme Primals SO soon.
Give people a chance to clear the content properly with the stupid lockout removed first.
If the intended purpose of the Echo is to progress players faster to endgame content, then get rid of the dumb lockout on Coil 2 so more people can attempt it.

Coil went two weeks without any echo once it was unlocked. Also, every Extreme primal battle begins with no echos as well. I honestly think they did a brilliant job.

[ToffeeCoffee]

Two weeks is not long enough for players doing Coil for the first time due to the lockout. It's an insult bringing Echo in so soon for those who couldnt find a static or didnt want to put up with particular ragers who wanted their weekly clear before reset.