[dev1016] Recipes still not appropriate for items produced/using class level

[Winterclaw]

Okay I was looking over the crafting lists tonight.

In order to make a bronze spatha for my gladiator, which is a level 11 item, I need to have 27 or so ranks in blacksmith. Why is that? Because the blade to make it needs someone who is level 27 to make it. Even if I had one, the rank of BSM I'd need is 18. For a rank 11 item.

In a sane system:
1. You should probably be able to produce the parts by the time you should be able to make the final item. This isn't realistic per se, but it is sane.
2. The rank of the guy needed to make the item shouldn't be more than the rank of the class that uses the item.


Let's just see what all it takes to make this earlish level item.

Classes:
level 27 blacksmith
level 14 armorer
level 14 leather worker
level 14 alchemist
level 11 goldsmith
level 1 carpenter

1 Brass rivet
..2 brass nuggets
....6 copper ore
....1 zinc ore

1 gray sheep leather swordguard
..1 slate-gray sheep leather
....1 sheepskin
....1 grey leather dye
......1 Linseed Oil
........4 flax
......1 slate gray scale bugs
....1 willow chips
......1 willow log

1 mole sinew cord
..1 mole sinew
..1 beeswax
....3 beehive chips
......1 bee basket

1 fish glue
..either 5 herrings, 3 bass, or 1 wahoo
..1 muddy water
..either 1 sea pickle, 1 sea cucumber, or 1 razor clam

1 ram horn sword grip
..1 fish glue (see above)
..3 ice shards
..1 ram horn

1 bronze spatha blade
..3 bronze nuggets
....9 copper ore
....1 tin ore
..1 bronze ingot
....5 bronze nuggets
......15 copper ore
......3 tin ore

Didn't include shards that weren't listed as part of the recipes.

And then you have to hope you don't fail.


Now in case someone can't put two and two together, that's an awful lot needed for something that low in level. If you were trying to keep your bsm class close to your glad class you'd never be able to make this. In fact, if you keep both classes at the same level, by the time you could make this, your gladiator class would be looking to get an iron gladius, which is a level 26 item, which you'd need a level 31 bsm, level 33 gsm, and level 33 alch to make. Better but still wrong.


Can we agree that the crafting system is badly messed up in places?

[TheVedis]

The system isnt meant to work how you are stating it

People are meant to work together to make stuff(granted alot of people are doing it all, but thats besides the point)

Your 11 gladiator(which you coulda got in all of 5 minutes anyway) isnt the same thing as having a rank 11 blacksmith or carp or whatever. They are 2 totaly different fields.


Now granted some recipes are rediculously high for what they make(27 for an 11 item isnt as bad as it sounds, but it couldnt hurt for it to be the high teens instead) but for the most part...also remember that most of those low teen items are ALL for sale at vendors, so you dont need to craft them

[Jet]

I like it the way it is =d

[Winterclaw]

People are meant to work together to make stuff(granted alot of people are doing it all, but thats besides the point)

Which is another way square tried to reinvent the wheel again. Maybe, just maybe, if we had a real AH and the ability to request items that aren't there (like EVE) so people know to make them, then maybe something like this might work. But instead of trying to see what the best crafting games were, what they did right, and what they did wrong SE pulled a derivative system out of their keisters, made it to require too many classes and items, and then didn't give us the proper tools for exchanging items in a timely and convenient basis.

In gamespot's 4.0 review, one of the things they asked is if you can patch fun into a game. Games are meant to be fun. This crafting system is not fun as it.

Your 11 gladiator(which you coulda got in all of 5 minutes anyway) isnt the same thing as having a rank 11 blacksmith or carp or whatever. They are 2 totaly different fields.

I don't care about fields, it's about being able to produce things for people who are around your level. Needing to be level 27 to make something for a level 11 char is asinine.

also remember that most of those low teen items are ALL for sale at vendors, so you dont need to craft them

Which screws up the economy even more. And why are those things on sale? Because a level 11 crafter can't make things for another class his level.

[TheVedis]

Which screws up the economy even more. And why are those things on sale? Because a level 11 crafter can't make things for another class his level.

thats not why
they were put on vendors because crafters didnt want to make them(the main reason) because people wouldnt pay the prices they were asking(the cause of why)
it really had nothing to do with the ability to make stuff at all

please learn the facts as to why things were done the way they were

[Pyrix]

I love the crafting system! Granted I agree with the level discrepancy but the complexity of it is appealing to me, I like that you need to make iron rings to make chains for chainmail because that's what you'd need to do in real life. You shouldn't just be able to make chainmail out of an iron ingot. What did you do to the ingot that allowed you to make that chainmail? That's why I love the current system. It's not that hard to figure out and its complexity makes it feel like an actual class.