Learning to Tank

[Moirear]

Well the archer in my group was level synced. So is it really ok, to let that mob go to them and not worry about it? Would they be able to handle it and not die?

BTW, since I got a level 34 CNJ/WHM it makes sense that I go GLA then PLD. But is there skills I should try to get from the marauder?

I'd get them all. CNJ only gives you one worthwhile cross-class ability for the endgame, and that's Stoneskin because your Mind stat is irrelevant to its efficacy. The rest are pretty much useless: Raise cannot be used in combat, Cure is too pathetic because of insufficient Mind, and Protect is eclipsed by a WHM's Protect. The MRD abilities on the other hand are all inherently useful to a PLD to varying degrees; they give you a DoT (Fracture) which actually supports enmity generation, an extra defensive cooldown, a self-healing ability based on damage you inflict, and an off-global-cooldown finishing move that might heal you if it lands a killing blow. And you only need MRD26 to unlock them all.

On a personal note, I recommend taking both tank jobs all the way to 50. You will learn a lot about both of them individually and how to work together with a different type of tank in 8-player duties.

All the dungeons up to, roughly, Haukke Manor or Brayflox's Longstop are designed in a way that no role has to be played in a completely solid fashion. Perfect role mastery only speeds up their completion. So yeah, if you lose top enmity to an archer now and then, it won't be the end of the world. You'll get more and more tools to deal with it as you progress, but generally, it's never easy at the lowest level dungeons unless you outgear the dps players. They might need to learn the hard way that pew-pewing targets only after a tank establishes adequate threat or only going full out in the right moments is also their shared responsibility in the grand scheme of aggro management.

[Taramin]

... CNJ only gives you one worthwhile cross-class ability for the endgame, and that's Stoneskin because your Mind stat is irrelevant to its efficacy. The rest are pretty much useless: Raise cannot be used in combat, Cure is too pathetic because of insufficient Mind, and Protect is eclipsed by a WHM's Protect...

Stoneskin also receives a boost from CNJ traits, and it is sub-optimal to use if there is a WHM in the party. By all means, Stoneskin away otherwise, but it's like protect, if there's a WHM present, let them cover it.

[Moirear]

Stoneskin also receives a boost from CNJ traits, and it is sub-optimal to use if there is a WHM in the party. By all means, Stoneskin away otherwise, but it's like protect, if there's a WHM present, let them cover it.

This is true, but Stoneskin still has its use even with a WHM in the party. Usually mid-combat, if you're the off-tank and have the time and MP to spare, you can stoneskin the main tank.

[JeniLinsky]

Well the archer in my group was level synced. So is it really ok, to let that mob go to them and not worry about it? Would they be able to handle it and not die?

As a high-level paladin, my rule in parties is: you pull it, you eat it.

Do I try to intercept things making a break for the DDs? Yes. But my priority for keeping people alive is the healers. There's an old rule of thumb for dungeons: If the tank dies first, it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies first, it's the tank's fault. If the DDs die first, it's their own damn fault.

Plus, DDs usually have a pretty good idea of what they can handle. The Lancer / Dragoon isn't as heavily armored as you are, but she's better armored than the Pugilist / Monk / Archer / Bard, who are in turn better armored than the casters. If you see a low-level DD pulling aggro off you, discuss it with them... nicely. They may not have the experience to know why you're losing aggro. If you see a high level DD repeatedly pulling aggro off you, let them. They have a good idea of what they can handle, just as you have a good idea of what you can handle.

[Souljacker]

There's an old rule of thumb for dungeons: If the tank dies first, it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies first, it's the tank's fault. If the DDs die first, it's their own damn fault.

99% of the time I agree with you. I have tanked for over a decade across three games, and I have seen DPS do some stupid things. That being said - I have been in many dungeons as a DRG and a CNJ and tanks do seem to struggle disproportionately. As an inexperienced DRG without any expensive gear I had no issues pulling threat from tanks without trying, and on CNJ I have to time cures very carefully because tanks struggle to hold aggro. Something in the design, especially for the sword and board tanks that seem to have a harder time of it than the warriors\marauder tanks, needs tweaks. I agree that tanks need to use their cooldowns and abilities intelligently, but the level of struggle I am seeing in content needs to be addressed.

[kukurumei]

As a high-level paladin, my rule in parties is: you pull it, you eat it.

Do I try to intercept things making a break for the DDs? Yes. But my priority for keeping people alive is the healers. There's an old rule of thumb for dungeons: If the tank dies first, it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies first, it's the tank's fault. If the DDs die first, it's their own damn fault.

Plus, DDs usually have a pretty good idea of what they can handle. The Lancer / Dragoon isn't as heavily armored as you are, but she's better armored than the Pugilist / Monk / Archer / Bard, who are in turn better armored than the casters. If you see a low-level DD pulling aggro off you, discuss it with them... nicely. They may not have the experience to know why you're losing aggro. If you see a high level DD repeatedly pulling aggro off you, let them. They have a good idea of what they can handle, just as you have a good idea of what you can handle.

Dungeon possibility, endgame content, definitely not.

There are 3 rules to tanking. Mitigating damage, controlling hate, and positioning.

None of those three have to deal with who lives or dies. It can be any number of things that causes it, from not saving a dps from the mechanics, to the dps not saving the healer, to the healer not saving the tank, to you being stupid.

Popping cool downs and saving cool downs is a job of the tank, not the healer. Especially as you head to stone vigil and beyond, don't be stupid running to your death with no cool downs up. You get yourself and the party killed for no reason.

The first rule of tanking blind is keep your eyes peeled at the monster cast bar. It may not always work or even work often, but if something is being casted, you need to know, or in higher forms of battles, scream it out in some kind of voice chat, etc.

[Foo01]

Positioning seems to be most difficult to define and figure out. I can understand running right up to ifrit and turn him around, so his fire doesn't hurt the other players. But other stuff seems a lot harder to say what is best. When the room is big circle where do you go? Or if has 4 side, which side should you go to? And like Aiatar in Brayflox, no amount of tank positioning seems to work to get it to not spit poison everywhere making it hard for the DPS players. Or Chimera I see the tanks like to drag it up the snow all the way to the line, but I don't know why you need to do that?

[kukurumei]

Positioning seems to be most difficult to define and figure out. I can understand running right up to ifrit and turn him around, so his fire doesn't hurt the other players. But other stuff seems a lot harder to say what is best. When the room is big circle where do you go? Or if has 4 side, which side should you go to? And like Aiatar in Brayflox, no amount of tank positioning seems to work to get it to not spit poison everywhere making it hard for the DPS players. Or Chimera I see the tanks like to drag it up the snow all the way to the line, but I don't know why you need to do that?

Some of it comes with experience from other MMOs, some of it specific to the content itself, some of it is obvious with a little thought.

Brayfox Normal, the dragon spit poison on a member not the tank, so you fight him on the edge, facing the wall, and you move him in a circle on the outer walls, thus the poison will always be in the middle and never on the dragon, while giving you the max distance traveling to safe spots.

Many many tanking strategies are borrowed from other MMOs, and/or reused from earlier content.

Wall tanking, aka facing your back to the wall, is a time honored tank tactics. Oppositely center tanking is also a well used method. Almost always if it's not one it's the other, with exceptions.

[vp_cmc]

Or Chimera I see the tanks like to drag it up the snow all the way to the line, but I don't know why you need to do that?

Because if chimera stays higher than dps, it's dragon voice doesn't hit them, and group should only deal (stun\silence) with ram voice.

[muwa]

Or Chimera I see the tanks like to drag it up the snow all the way to the line, but I don't know why you need to do that?

Tanks take Chimera up the snow because its dragon voice aoe doesn't work on players on a different elevation, so ranged characters can just ignore the spell and just have to dodge the ice patches and the homing ball.

The first boss in Qarn had the same problem, you could avoid the doom spell by staying on a pillar the whole fight. They removed the pillar in patch 2.2.