Why don't skilled players help people who are struggling?

[SarcasmMisser]

So how do these players find the other players that they depend on, so they just wake up one day and find themselves in a skilled static or fc? Isn't it personal effort to network and socialise with the right players, to build a reputation as a player they can also depend on, a reputation that depends on your individual ability? This is a social game with teamwork, so building the right team is also a element of skill you shouldn't neglect.

This is what is wrong with the op, there is no attempt to bring something to the table. He is asking skilled people to come to him, so he had everything to gain but the rest have nothing. No skilled group picks up members like that, it is called asking for a carry. It is bringing nothing to the table, there is no give or take which is essential to a team, there is just give to me for ethical reasons. If you want to learn, you should expect other people who want to learn, and build a group together. The skilled groups have been there and done that, unless you want to dispute the countless hours raiding FCs put into progression.

This is why people say "I did it and you should too". If they are good they were never carried, and if they were at the cutting edge of progression they even did it without guides

[RumiP]

And because of their efforts, everyone should be exactly like them, 100% perfect in every way for any given part of the game.

So you're either speaking about a very specific set of people then, or you have some kind of severe inferiority complex.

Why do you need to take advantage of your own situation for personal gain when it really isn't entirely needed? Why can't we be generous once in a while when we know we easily could be.

Why wouldn't you take advantage of your position for personal gain? Why else would I have tried to get to that position? And sure, people can be generous, but this isn't like giving someone pocket change. This is having to teach someone about finances in order to help them receive your pocket change and spend it wisely.

there is no attempt to bring something to the table

This.

[Sapphic]

If the skilled player is using the duty finder, it makes no sense whatsoever that they do not help.

Problem is, so many times no one says they are new to a dungeon when they are. As it is their responsibility to notify the party that they are. On the rare occasion someone does pipe up that they are new to the run, I'll run it and mark mobs which need to die first and do a run down on strats before the boss if anything special. Otherwise, if they don't I'll run under the assumption that no-one is as it is not my responsibility to "interview" each member in the DF party to find out if they have experience in the dungeon or not.

New players should also take the responsibility of informing the party at the start.

[alhandra]

why dont people who are struggling ask for help? why is the burden on me to offer help when 95% of the time people wont even ask for and/or respond to advice that is given

[Welsper59]

So you're either speaking about a very specific set of people then, or you have some kind of severe inferiority complex.


Why wouldn't you take advantage of your position for personal gain? Why else would I have tried to get to that position? And sure, people can be generous, but this isn't like giving someone pocket change. This is having to teach someone about finances in order to help them receive your pocket change and spend it wisely.

I'm starting to think you have a bit of a memory issue or maybe need to get into a habit of rereading things. :/ Yes, it was aimed at a specific group of people, specifically the "d-bags/jerks" that are stereotypically referred to (and are all too real, unfortunately). That was part of the very first sentence of the statement I made that you initially quoted. I really wouldn't classify an understanding of how things work to be an "inferiority complex". Actually, it'd probably result in the much more likely "superiority complex", due to an understanding of things that most don't.

Again, I already said that someone taking advantage of their situation is 100% normal to me. I was stating what the OP was getting at was why can't people be on the generous end, instead of looking to profit all the time. It's not a matter of joining an FC to be carried, nor is it a matter of learning (to be honest). It's just a matter of experience. Being generous can be a good, and often positive, experience on its own. There are always additional sides to look at something. What one person can consider dedication to a game and impressive degree of time learning how to do something in it, another person could see it as a waste of time where that same degree of effort could be better spent in the real world. The OP also kind of went on a tangent, but oh well.

[Sapphic]

Most d-bags/jerks like that are of the mind that they "worked" to get to the point they are "by themselves". .

So you are saying good players researched their roles, rotations and strats utilizing available resources and guides on the Internet.

So answer me this: Whats stopping other players doing the same and utilizing guides on the internet also instead of expecting everyone to teach them?

It is no-one elses "job" to teach anyone else if they don't want to. Those who strongly want to make it available through FFXIV resource sites and forums.

Players who want to learn can also use the party finder to find people willing to help. Instead of jumping into a random party in DF and expecting others to do foe them that they could have, with a little effort, done themselves.

What if the new player is on a class/job that no-one else in the party has experience on enough to give them advice on how to utilize their abilities? Do you think that they should stop and go and study that class/job so they can "advise them"?

I can advise someone on BRD (which I main) PLD (which I use to cover if we short in static for a night), WHM and even BLM. SMN, im totally out of practice with. So if a SMN was needing advice, I couldn't give it. But if I play SMN again I would use the resources available, either through the internet, asking friends outside of a dungeon and practice on overworld mobs and dummys before setting foot in a dungeon. Not jump in a dungeon and expect someone else to teach me. Something which everyone can do.

[BMihawk]

The problem isn't with the experienced helping the newbies, its more of the frustration having to form a new party finder after the group which takes usually about 20-30 mins to form to fall apart just because someone did not learn how to play the fight.

It is shocking but thats what has come down in my server, Tonberry (JP). I know its because i usually love to join PUG group to meet new people and test the content and see the general skill level of the public as compared to one shotting content and boy sometimes it goes beyond disastrous.

I think why people bother to queue Ifrit EX for titan cleared checks, check lodestone achievements and disclaimers in party finders its because some of us dont have the time to actually stick around for the new person to learn the fight. Its time consuming. Imagine, before your considered an EXPERIENCED player, recount the number of wipes you had before reaching that status. 1-3 days depending on content and gear level and then someone NEW comes in, totally unexperienced, makes a mistake and the party wipes over and over again. Most of them are looking for a free ride to clear, not wanting to learn the content and just hope that 7 other people are willing to "carry" (god i hate this word) through content.

Won't you feel frustrated that someone was trying to join you on a free ride ? I would. Therefore you cant really blame the experienced with regards to this. Its the L2P players that ruins the market for those who are really interested in clearing content.

One way to come around this is to find an FC that is willing to learn with you but seeing that its unlikely to happen in most cases (people usually log in to clear daillies and stuffs) its better off finding a new FC that has new people or linkshells of new players that are willing to do content together.

[Legionius]

As someone who has played a lot of MMOs but, has only played this one for 3 months so far, I find this thread hilarious.

As others have mentioned the structure of this game is ridiculously rigid. It seems to have created a huge gap between experienced and inexperienced players. The elitism built up from the supposed hell of 1.0 carried over to what was almost a new game as well. Starting in this game is probably the worst experience I've had in an MMO to date.

Asking for help is a wise thing to do but, from what I've seen it's also puts a giant target on your back. Anything that goes wrong is your fault, any frustration is often aimed at you because you wanted to do better and one mistake makes you the worst person in existence. It's easier to hide your ignorance and far easier to get away with than announcing it to random people.

Almost all the internet resources people like to throw out as a learning aid are contradictory, out of date, generalized to the point of near uselessness or exact copies of other people's information regardless of accuracy. There is some good stuff out there but, its buried under a mountain of crap.

Asking for help makes the experience worse for you more often than not and offering help is poking an open wound with a stick. I find myself getting frustrated with new people already because that mindset is so prevalent you have to adopt it to survive the higher end community. I just try to suck it up and keep trying to help newer people. Most of them seem to appreciate it.

[Welsper59]

So you are saying good players researched their roles, rotations and strats utilizing available resources and guides on the Internet.

So answer me this: Whats stopping other players doing the same and utilizing guides on the internet also instead of expecting everyone to teach them?

It is no-one elses "job" to teach anyone else if they don't want to. Those who strongly want to make it available through FFXIV resource sites and forums.

Players who want to learn can also use the party finder to find people willing to help. Instead of jumping into a random party in DF and expecting others to do foe them that they could have, with a little effort, done themselves.

What if the new player is on a class/job that no-one else in the party has experience on enough to give them advice on how to utilize their abilities? Do you think that they should stop and go and study that class/job so they can "advise them"?

I can advise someone on BRD (which I main) PLD (which I use to cover if we short in static for a night), WHM and even BLM. SMN, im totally out of practice with. So if a SMN was needing advice, I couldn't give it. But if I play SMN again I would use the resources available, either through the internet, asking friends outside of a dungeon and practice on overworld mobs and dummys before setting foot in a dungeon. Not jump in a dungeon and expect someone else to teach me. Something which everyone can do.

Reread the post you quoted and then take a look at the follow-ups I gave to RumiP for additional clarity. I recommend you read my statements carefully too. I tend to use very important and defining words to clarify them. I have a feeling you'd have the same puzzled responses if you don't... or maybe even if you do. /shrug

[OmegaFlare]

I love healing titan ex. I would love to help people heal it but thing is people keep falling off and the party isn't super geared enough to carry a fallen healer/dps. So yeah, I'm willing to help. It's just that it only takes one bad player to prevent the whole group from completing the quest and it gets frustrating after a while. New people need to band together and practice until they're ready. That's how everyone must learn all the new contents when they first came out.