Thaumaturge's Role in Battle and the Game World

[Cidolphus]

It doesn't make much sense to me to give the conjurer the high-level resurrect spells, since it is the thaumaturges, not the conjurers, who are seeking a means to bridge the gap between life and death. This new change to the battle/class system doesn't seem to fit well within the established mythos.

I mean, in this game world, the secrets of life and death are still unknown. Raise spells should be difficult to access, and really only accessible through the thaumaturge's guild at high ranks, as part of the guild story line.

What irks me aren't the changes themselves, but the incongruities they cause in the story.

[SydeBeheln]

Look at it from a different point of view. Traditional Raise spells are all light based magic, and THM is very opposite of that.
THM still gets it's own raise, but in terms of lore, it is different than raise, because it is more sacrificial, which is much more like THM.

Now, you should look at "death" in ffxiv as "K.O". Even the DEV team uses that term instead. K.O isn't absolute death, but instead the line between both, and is still subject to resurrection.

[Sorel]

Look at it from a different point of view. Traditional Raise spells are all light based magic, and THM is very opposite of that.

Not true. Thaumaturge can be both light and dark. The Thaumaturges in Milvaneth Sacrarium, Ul'dah all embrace life and worship Nald the "Imbuer of Life".

When a god's subtitle is "Imbuer of Life", seems a little odd that his priests don't have access to the most powerful raising spells, no?

[zaviermhigo]

Look at it from a different point of view. Traditional Raise spells are all light based magic, and THM is very opposite of that.
THM still gets it's own raise, but in terms of lore, it is different than raise, because it is more sacrificial, which is much more like THM.

Now, you should look at "death" in ffxiv as "K.O". Even the DEV team uses that term instead. K.O isn't absolute death, but instead the line between both, and is still subject to resurrection.

Are you a mule or are you a newb? It doesn't matter, its just having done the all the THM class quests I got a very different feeling from the lore than you did. Especially the astral THM at the other temple on the opposite side of Uldah. I didn't want to be rude though and automatically treat you like someone who didn't level up thm since lots of people link to mules.

[Lienn]

Um...no. Because regardless of context the main healing job of FF is the White Mage, not the thaumaturge. So much that when you see thaumaturge at other FFXI games (like FFXI) they're actually black mages.

THM are assassins...THM learning about life is like military learning anatomy...its just to be able to be more effective when killing people...just because military know anatomy doesn't mean they are medics.

[Cidolphus]

Um...no. Because regardless of context the main healing job of FF is the White Mage, not the thaumaturge. So much that when you see thaumaturge at other FFXI games (like FFXI) they're actually black mages.

THM are assassins...THM learning about life is like military learning anatomy...its just to be able to be more effective when killing people...just because military know anatomy doesn't mean they are medics.

This isn't Final Fantasy XI, and I don't think your post makes a whole lot of sense. The military analogy doesn't work for me. THM are not assassins, they're mystics. Traditional class designs are irrelevant here, because FFXIV has its own unique and versatile classes that don't need to be put on the Procrustean bed of FFXI's job system. Don't put THM into a box. Hell, we don't even know what their new role in combat is going to be.

I'm tired of hearing people say things like "regardless of context" or "regardless of story," just to focus on the game play. Game play mechanics are important, surely, but FORM IS CONTENT, and the battle system, the form, should draw the content, the story and mythology, into sharper focus. The THM should act in battle as he acts in guild quests, i.e. as a mystic with special knowledge of the hereafter. He should have resurrect, not some tree-hugging CON :P

[Cidolphus]

Look at it from a different point of view. Traditional Raise spells are all light based magic, and THM is very opposite of that.
THM still gets it's own raise, but in terms of lore, it is different than raise, because it is more sacrificial, which is much more like THM.

Now, you should look at "death" in ffxiv as "K.O". Even the DEV team uses that term instead. K.O isn't absolute death, but instead the line between both, and is still subject to resurrection.

Your preconceived notions about classes and spells are causing you to put FFXIV into a box. Who says resurrect needs to be a "light" spell? Why can't it be dark and forbidden and unnatural? And, while we're at it, who says THM is a dark class? He has access to both umbral and astral spells. He can go both ways, or either way, or neither way. That's the fun of the armory system.

[Sorel]

THM are assassins...THM learning about life is like military learning anatomy...its just to be able to be more effective when killing people...just because military know anatomy doesn't mean they are medics.

Um ... I guess all my medic friends in the Army are just assassins under deep cover. Boy they'll get a kick out of that!

Anyway, back on topic.

No. Not all Thaumaturges are assassins. They can do assassinations. Some actually do assassinations. But so do Marauders and Pugilists. Like several of us have already mentioned, the Thaumaturges of Nald (The Imbuer Of Life) in the Temple of Nald at Milvaneth Sacrarium embrace life. They are priests of life who worship a god of life.

You don't have to take my word for it. Log in. Go to Ul'dah. Talk to the Thaumaturges in the Temple of Nald. They'll tell you themselves.

[Cidolphus]

I think we're overlooking a huge point here: the word "thaumaturge" means wonder-worker.

Game, set, match.

[Hasthur]

Im not into FF lore so cant tell if it matches or not. From my point of view it could be both things you guys said, maybe at the same time each with its pros and cons. God of life should have control over life as god of death should have control over dead etc. Anyway I always wondered why the hardest defenders (even with arguments to the point of absurd) of a class boost/improvement is the same people that play that class. Feels cheese.