Doesn't it make more sense for Thaum. to have Raise/Rebirth II?

[allenshu]

Right now they have made it seem you will be ranking up a single class for a single job and not necessarily to 50. Also if they have jobs that require levels in several classes, that filter is still going to not let you put on all those abilities for your 'ideal' build because it's suppose to stream line what you're playing. In the end it will just depend on what sort of role you want to be cast into that determines what classes you rank up. You won't have to do all of them unless you want the flexibility of switching between jobs.

Correct.

Players can still play as classes in the future, which means classes are not replaced by jobs. Therefore, if you want flexibility, you can stay with classes without problems. On the other hand, if you want specific expert actions or equipments, you may need to put the job title on to be allowed to use those. This is why SE said, players can use classes in small party for daily leves or SP-gain purposes. For big events or fighting HNM, players will need full party and expert jobs to handle more difficult battles and situations.

Like I said, based on the released info, this class/job concept is essentially the same with what we have now. What SE doing is just give more hints to let players know what roles/jobs they can be based on the classes by setting some bonus and limitations corresponding to specific roles/jobs.

[KaiKatzchen]

Maybe it was just me but I have always figured that CON was going to be the WHM seeing it has the Cures, Buffs, Silena etc... CON seems to be a mix of WHM and RDM when comparing spells. Now with all the advanced Raise spells it's going to get it even feels more so like WHM.

THAU to me always seems more a mix of RDM and DRK with all the absorption spells, dia, and such that it had. So I always figured it was going more the BLM route... also looking at some of the spells

CON R1 = Spirit Dart (Light Element Attack)
THAU R1 = Phantom Dart (Shadow Attack)

CON R10 = Radiance (Sear an enemy with celestial brilliance, dealing astral damage.) Light Side
THAU R10 = Damnation (Haunt an enemy with visions of the hells, dealing umbral damage.) Dark Side

Also CON gets:
Resonance 26 = Incant in a sonorous tone
Roaming Soul 30 = Cast in an echoing hum
Profundity II 34 = Enunciate and project

Seems to me to be more calming magic, where is whispering, speaking or talking... more light side.

Thau gets:
Initiation 22 = Bestow your strengths on another
Paradigam Shift 30 = Amplify your voice
Blood Rite II 34 = Spill your own blood in a sacrificial rite

Seems to me more, yelling and sacrificing.. which tends to be more towards a darker side especially sacrificial rites.

Also:

CON: Nature's Fury 40 = Using nature and launching an elemental attack

Vs.

Thau: Shadowfall 40 = Using Darker magic and launching a shadowy attack

etc... etc... etc...


I have personally always felt that THAU was more towards the darker side, while CON seems to me more towards the light and nature side.

[allenshu]

Maybe it was just me but I have always figured that CON was going to be the WHM seeing it has the Cures, Buffs, Silena etc... CON seems to be a mix of WHM and RDM when comparing spells. Now with all the advanced Raise spells it's going to get it even feels more so like WHM.

In FFXIV, classes are not jobs, but you can create your ideal jobs from combining actions across classes.

For example, if you think a your ideal WHM can not only cure but also take a target's MP to keep your heal energy always full, you just need to put Siphon MP in your action list. Accordingly, you can even be a magic swordsman, magic archer, etc.

[KaiKatzchen]

In FFXIV, classes are not jobs, but you can create your ideal jobs from combining actions across classes.

For example, if you think a your ideal WHM can not only cure but also take a target's MP to keep your heal energy always full, you just need to put Siphon MP in your action list. Accordingly, you can even be a magic swordsman, magic archer, etc.

I know that the Classes are not Jobs, but SE is going to connect the Classes to Jobs by making them the jumping off point to open said Jobs. Once we have the Jobs, SE already said players would be much more limited in what abilities that you can use on the Jobs, and that the Jobs would get their own special abilities to make up for the fact that you can't really use the large range of Class abilities on your Jobs. So in that sense, we might not be able to use Siphon MP with the Job WHM. So they are very difference things indeed:

Classes can use pretty much any ability from all other classes, making a great range of classes you can create.

Job will be unlocked by getting Classes to "X" level and will be much more limited in the use of Class abilities and given Job specific abilities that are Job use only.

So if that is the case, you can't create your ideal Job by combining Class abilities because Jobs and Classes are going to be two separate areas that can't exactly cross together.



On a totally different note... they have only announced Paladin, Dragoon (Dragon Knight), White Mage, Black Mage, Monk and Bard...

Also Musketeer and Anarchist (I believe it was) were announced classes that that have guilds but are not in the game yet.

So we have::

6 Announced Jobs

7 Classes

2 Missing Classes

1 Unannounced Job.... 3 if you count the missing Classes.

So in short, we don't have all the info, so there might be a missing job they haven't announced that connected to either CON or THAU.

Hope more info comes out!

[Shyd]

I know that the Classes are not Jobs, but SE is going to connect the Classes to Jobs by making them the jumping off point to open said Jobs. Once we have the Jobs, SE already said players would be much more limited in what abilities that you can use on the Jobs, and that the Jobs would get their own special abilities to make up for the fact that you can't really use the large range of Class abilities on your Jobs. So in that sense, we might not be able to use Siphon MP with the Job WHM. So they are very difference things indeed:

Classes can use pretty much any ability from all other classes, making a great range of classes you can create.

Job will be unlocked by getting Classes to "X" level and will be much more limited in the use of Class abilities and given Job specific abilities that are Job use only.

So if that is the case, you can't create your ideal Job by combining Class abilities because Jobs and Classes are going to be two separate areas that can't exactly cross together.

Thinking it might be just DoM vs DoW. DoW jobs can only use DoW actions, DoM jobs can only use DoM actions.

Just taking a blind stab at it~

[KaiKatzchen]

Thinking it might be just DoM vs DoW. DoW jobs can only use DoW actions, DoM jobs can only use DoM actions.

Just taking a blind stab at it~

Yeah, see that's where SE really hasn't said heehee, they just said that class abilities would be greatly restricted and that's why Jobs would get their own special job abilities to make up for it.

I don't know how restricted SE is going to make it, but I can't wait for them to tell us so we know how much customization these new Jobs will have. To be honest, just from the information I've seen, it seems like they are going to keep the jobs pretty cut and dry to server a specific purpose.

They did say they wanted the jobs to be very specific, Tank, DD, DD Range, Healer etc... so that gives me the feeling they won't let us do much cross class customizing with the jobs. But that's just my opinion from what I have heard, and SE hasn't given full info yet.

Con always felt more like an WHM it had more whm spells and everything. Also over 78% of the populous voted for drastic changes you cant complain about this stuff now. I already know any class i may like could be changed and i am ok with that.

I agree, I'm trying to stay open minded about the changes because everyone for the most part said they were open to it. Only thing that bugs me is when people ask for the changes, get the changes, then whine about them again... >.<

I'll be happy and adjust to whatever they do as long as in the long run it continues to imporve the game.

[allenshu]

I know that the Classes are not Jobs, but SE is going to connect the Classes to Jobs by making them the jumping off point to open said Jobs. Once we have the Jobs, SE already said players would be much more limited in what abilities that you can use on the Jobs, and that the Jobs would get their own special abilities to make up for the fact that you can't really use the large range of Class abilities on your Jobs. So in that sense, we might not be able to use Siphon MP with the Job WHM.

I think my previous posts in this thread already explained these =)

For those you quoted, I was simply saying that classes are not jobs in FFXIV (that's why they are called "Classes" in the very beginning). Therefore, it's meaningless to claim one class to be one job directly, and of course, it's also meaningless to discuss why CON is not like WHM or THM is not like BLM. (Because, again, classes are not jobs in FFXIV). Based on released info so far, it's known that jobs in the future are built upon the classes. Right now, players can set actions to play the roles/jobs they want in a party. After jobs are introduced, SE gives players job titles and corresponding bonus/limitations to let players know what classes/actions are required for specific jobs.

And again, jobs will not replace classes, they are built upon classes. Players can play as classes or jobs depends on different situations.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

THM sacrifice themselves to heal and damage others. It would be counter productive of them to inflict this on themselves for a more powerful version of resurrection. It already doesn't make sense that they have it to begin with. It's just something placed for convenience.

[Lerris]

The lore was already broken.

The Arzzaneth Ossuary does not know how to communicate with the dead, but adventurers can raise and resurrect fallen comrades...

I know that the argument is that adventurers don't die in FF but are KO'ed, but the name of the spell Resurrect contradicts this detail. ( "Raise" is a little more ambiguous )

It does make more sense with the given lore to make thaumaturges the primary healers. And it makes absolutely no sense to take elemental spells away from the conjurers.

Which I find disappointing. A disconnect between story/lore and the rules system runs counter to the spirit of the entire FF series. I hope there is a massive lore rewrite to match the changes to the mage classes.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Wrong...I'm pretty sure bayhone specifically clarified that the jobs would unlock before 50....

Source please.